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cartridge box with tins and shoulder strap with breast plate


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Just got this set - I pretty confident they have been together for a long time. I really like this set!

 

the belt buckle (instead of a cartridge box plate) and the breast plate have the same patina color.

 

Both of these are very tight and would be real effort to remove which makes me think they have been with this set for a very long time if not from issue

post-80886-0-29842300-1490481909_thumb.jpg

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Congrats - really nice. Have you been looking long? It's neat holding something that a soldier may have been reaching into urgently during one of those terrifying heat of battle moments. Any maker's marks you can read?

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I hate to say it, but I believe the entire box is a reproduction. The stitching looks very loose and sloppy compared to the other one you posted. The leather also doesn't look right for something that should be 150 years old. Hope I'm wrong but you should let an expert examine it in person.

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I pretty sure it's the steel hooks - they should be iron - When I bid on this there was not a good , clear picture of the breast plate hooks and that is my fault. I have sent an email to try to get my money back as this plate is a repo.

 

Another lesson learned -

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Steve Rogers

I have to agree with VMI88 that the whole rig is a reproduction, with the possible exception of the cartridge box tins. It is a useful exercise to look it over and pinpoint troubling aspects.

I think VMI88 is dead-on about the sloppiness of the stitching. Note the broad and uneven stitches. The whiteness of the thread would also be a warning sign and the thickness of the thread, though that is tough to grasp from photos.

The thickness of the leather is also a problem. In the shot of the back of the box, see how thick the shoulder belt is shown to be and the horizontal loops securing it. Note also how the inside of the flap and the backside of the belt have very raised, fuzzy surfaces. Some of these differences from originals are due to the modern tanning processes or finishing processes. Others are sometimes said to be from modern methods of raising cattle that produces a spongier leather that needs to be thicker to obtain the same strength. Regardless, they are not good signs.

The box also uses a later splay rivet on the latch tab. Those on the bottoms of the belt loops are tougher to see, but appear to be the same. One could argue the rivet on the latch tab is a later repair, but I think it was just a convenient rivet at hand for the maker who was likely not intending to fool anyone. What happened after that is another question.

If the tins are real, I suspect there was a conscious effort to deceive. I would note also that using a belt buckle for a box plate sometimes shows up on veteran bring-backs when they used the box after the war for hunting, did not need a waistbelt, but wanted to keep their belt plate. I only bring that up because someone intending to deceive may have wanted to give the semblance of a rig that had seen postwar use on a farm, etc., in order to explain the obvious late rivet on the latch tab.

I’ll leave it to others to comment more on the plates.

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This breast plate is in O'Donnell's American Belt Plates book under plate 464, but most collector's consider it a reproduction, Some think it's possible authentic ones exist along with the original die and someone's been using it.

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