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Pre-WW2 and WW2 45th Division Doctor Grouping

Started by nuts121944 , Mar 19 2017 10:58 PM

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#1 nuts121944

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 10:58 PM

Hi All,

 

I recently picked up a spectacular Pre-WW2 and WW2 U.S. 45th Infantry Division Doctor's grouping. From what I have been able to find out so far, He graduated medical school in 1918, joined the Oklahoma National Guard in 1923, and served with them until they were called up to active duty. His name was Walter H. Miles, and he eventually retired out as a full Colonel. He participated in the invasion of Sicily, and supposedly remained in Italy and Austria until 1946 when he was sent home. The Pre-WW2 Medical uniform is the dress blue variety with all of the correct insignia. I was wondering if anyone might know of any good resources where I could find out some more information about the U.S. Army Medical Corps dress blue uniform that I have that belonged to this man and that he would have worn in the 1930's and up until being called up to active duty with the 45th. Also, if someone could walk me through how to post photos, I would love to be able to share some photos with the group. I was at first concerned that the blue uniform was post-WW2, but as I learned the history of the doctor, I found out that he died in 1954. Thanks to all for your help. I look forward to hearing from you all regarding the uniform or more information on the man.

 

Best Regards,

Nick



#2 268th C.A.

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 03:49 AM

Try the 45th Division Musuem in OK City. If you are ever going through Oklahoma City. Make a stop its worth the time. The are a lot of Bill Mauldin' s "Willie and Joe" original art work displayed. Tons of artifacts too.



#3 nuts121944

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 04:51 AM

Thanks! I had actually planned to call the museum today to see if I could get any more information. We'll see if I'm able to come up with anything there.



#4 nuts121944

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 12:15 PM

Does anyone know any specifics regarding the Pre-WW2/early WW2 U.S. Army Medical Corps uniforms? Such as when they were authorized for wear, whether the uniform would be pre-war or issued early on in the war, etc? Or even a good U.S. Army Medical Corps reference book where I would be able to learn some more information on the uniform? Thanks so much for your help and input!



#5 nuts121944

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 06:41 PM

resized_20170318_155811.jpeg



#6 nuts121944

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 06:42 PM

The image above and those following are some photos of the blue U.S. Army Medical Corps uniform that I mentioned above. If anyone has any information on this type of uniform as far as the era that it would be worn, etc, I would sure appreciate your help. Thanks so much!

 

Best Regards,

Nick



#7 nuts121944

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 06:52 PM

Here are some more photos of the uniform that I mentioned above. Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

 

Best Regards,

Nick

Attached Images

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#8 Reforger

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Posted 22 March 2017 - 03:18 PM

I don't know much about uniforms, but the hat has a nice V Eagle Badge on it, typical for WWII. If there are no markings indicating a date in the uniform, you could check the backs of the insignia. Based on their hallmark or design, you may be able to narrow down the time frame.



#9 nuts121944

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Posted 22 March 2017 - 10:27 PM

Thanks so much for your input! When I found the uniform at the estate sale, the hat actually didn't have the cap badge on it -- however on further examination of all the display cases, I found the cap badge mixed in with some other random pins. I was ecstatic to find it like that! This one is actually one of the more interesting ones as it is solid, heavy metal, rather than the lighter, machine-pressed versions that are so commonly encountered on WW2-era caps. Today I stumbled upon the notice of this man's death, published on the front-page of our local newspaper in September of 1954. Imagine how excited I was to find 3 columns written about him, including his time in the service! I learned that he was promoted to the rank of Lt. Col in 1940 which would effectively date this uniform to before that time, as the shoulders seem to indicate a rank of major (unless the silver bullion has aged into a more gold-appearing color over the years). He was eventually promoted to Full-Bird Col. in 1946 while serving on occupation in Austria where he was in charge of the committee tasked with writing the new public health policy for the nation of Austria. It appears that he was a fascinating individual. Thanks again for your observations and the information you provided Reforger!



#10 BEAST

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Posted 23 March 2017 - 07:00 AM

I would reach out to member JameCharles http://www.usmilitar...0-jamecharles/. He collects primarily US Army dress blues. Good luck!

#11 Dave

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Posted 23 March 2017 - 07:55 AM

Without the breast pockets, I'd definitely say it's pre-WW2. These weren't worn during the war, so the fact that he didn't promote the uniform beyond LTC (from 1940) is entirely correct. He probably purchased the new style of dress blues after WW2 if he was still wearing them at that time.

 

A very nice uniform!

Dave



#12 nuts121944

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Posted 23 March 2017 - 01:36 PM

Thanks James and Beast.

 

Dave -- Thanks for your comments about the uniform. It has definitely become one of the favorites in my collection. You mentioned "without the breast pockets". Are you talking about the absence of the stylized pocket flaps that are typically seen on the WW2-era uniforms? Or were you talking about another feature that I'm not familiar with? I also like your rationale as to why the rank was never changed to reflect his promotions during wartime. 

 

Beast -- Thanks for pointing me to James. I'll get in touch with him to see what I can find out. I'll also post more photos of the other items that I got from this veteran's estate.

 

Thank you all again for the info! 



#13 nuts121944

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Posted 23 March 2017 - 02:22 PM

Thanks James and Beast.

 

Dave -- Thanks for your comments about the uniform. It has definitely become one of the favorites in my collection. You mentioned "without the breast pockets". Are you talking about the absence of the stylized pocket flaps that are typically seen on the WW2-era uniforms? Or were you talking about another feature that I'm not familiar with? I also like your rationale as to why the rank was never changed to reflect his promotions during wartime. 

 

Beast -- Thanks for pointing me to James. I'll get in touch with him to see what I can find out. I'll also post more photos of the other items that I got from this veteran's estate.

 

Thank you all again for the info! 

 

Sorry, that was supposed to say Thanks DAVE and Beast. My apologies!



#14 Dave

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Posted 23 March 2017 - 02:52 PM

All good!

Yes, it doesn't have the patch pockets on the front like the postwar uniforms. I'm sure there are specific M designations for these uniforms, but I've been so far out of studying them, they're lost to me!



#15 nuts121944

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Posted 23 March 2017 - 03:03 PM

Thanks for the information Dave. I see what you're saying now -- rather than the breast pockets being stitched on to the outside of the jacket, they are instead integral to the jacket with the actual pocket extending into the interior of the jacket rather than being on the front. That makes sense and makes for an easy way to identify pre-war vs. post-war. Thanks for the pointer! I am going to also go over to the "Groupings" forum and post this along with the dress "Pinks and Greens" and some of the other items in the grouping that I got from this veteran's estate. I figure posting those things here is inappropriate since I already know what they are -- regardless, I would like to share them with everyone as they are some of the finest additions that I have ever had the privilege of adding to my collection. It doesn't get better than rock-solid provenance!

 

-Nick



#16 Jamecharles

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Posted Yesterday, 01:49 AM

Hello Nick,

 

glad to see your Amazing find

 

In 1936 the Army tried to change the blue dress uniforms and convert in a most seample version wearable in all occasions with the easy change of few details (tuxedo shirt with bowtie for special events and civilian shirt with tie for formal occasions - not only this but basically the dress was the same for all occasions) this idea was perfect to ensure a serious savings for all officers who wanted a blue dress for formal occasion, BUT after less than 1 year the army changed mind about and back to the classic set of blue dress .

Instead only 1 formal dress wearable in all occasions  they were back in the same year (1936)  for blue dress, mess dress and special evening each one for a different occasion.

 

It's the canonic blue dress uniform introduced in 1937 and that regularized completelly in 1938, than was officially not mandatory since 1941 until the end of the war.

But that don't means that was not used in the USA also during war period, there are many photos and example of blue dresses made during war period until the end of the war.

Probably this dress was used until 1953 when officially they decided to swap for the most known blue dress uniform, with patch pocket on the chest ( same identical version of the actual model used by the army), color of the army were clearly positioned on the hat band, shoulder boards  and trousers (main color on the larger band and secondary color as piping, in this case Maroon and White: the colors of the medical branch of the army) and on the sleeve only the main color).

​Ranks are double sewn on each shoulder board ONLY for all officers except the Generals, who has the rank sewn only once.

 

This visor have the oak leafs (aka scrabbled eggs) on the bill as for reg. used by all officers up to major to colonel,as Dave said he probably used it until 1953 than he decided to change for the new blue dress version but in my mind he never get time to asking for the new one due to his Death.
​Consider also that this version (1937) was used by many officer ALSO after 1953 changing only few details to be more similar to the new version standardized in that period.

 

Don't forget to use black shoes, White shirt and black tie for this set!  (PS: I own a medic officer set with a maroon tie and bow tie for mess dress that is obviously out of reg.s, but is not so rare see strange habit in wearing those special dress during and pre ww2.

 

I would say overall perfect example of blue dress uniform.

 

if you have any other question feel free to ask, and thanks for sharing this beauty!

 

Giancarlo


Edited by Jamecharles, Yesterday, 01:49 AM.



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