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FAC & TASS Patches - Vietnam

Started by River Patrol , Feb 14 2007 09:34 AM

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#21 vietnamwarmilitaria.com

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Posted 13 October 2007 - 08:00 PM

Thought they both loaded, I guess not. Here is the other.

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  • 20thTASS.2.jpg


#22 nguoi tien su

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Posted 15 October 2007 - 08:19 AM

Two different party suit paches. 20th TASS.

The left on is thai made, the right one japanese.

20th_tass.JPG

NTS

#23 vintageproductions

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Posted 15 October 2007 - 12:40 PM

Are you sure the Snoopy patch on the left is Thai made? The reason I ask is the lettering and the type of construction screams Vietnamese made. The US flag patch above it is definately Thai hand embroidered.

#24 nguoi tien su

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Posted 15 October 2007 - 05:47 PM

Bob, your reply makes sense!

The construction of the patch is quite different of the others on the suit. The suit itself was made in Thailand but the unit was based in DaNang (this one has the digits starting with 2XX).
The patch must have been made in VN were the unit was stationned, then the pilot decided to have a party suit which was made in Thailand.

Thanks for sharing your knowledge !

NTS

#25 beezman

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Posted 17 October 2007 - 11:51 AM

Posted Image
Steve, here is a picture of your second unknown patch worn in Vietnam. I do not remember where I found it, but the file name says 19th TASS.

#26 gwb123

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Posted 20 October 2007 - 08:07 PM

ALO FAC F19 patch -- This one is unknown to me, so if you have information about it, please share. I believe ALO is an acronym for Air Liason Officer (but could also be Aircraft Light Observation). So maybe this was a SVN Officer patch that acted as a Liason to the Army FAC units. I don't know...I'm just guessing. I'm unsure what the F-19 represents but it is also used on the companion patch (small diamond patch). The moto under neath the plane "Mot Minh Khong So" translates to "Alone and Not Afraid", which fits a FAC pilot's mission, flying alone in a single engine prop plane high above the jungles of Vietnam.


I believe I have an explanation for the "F-19" designation that you see on this patch.

The 0-1 Bird Dog observation planes were originally designated L-19 when the planes were first purchased by the US Army for the Korean War. According to an entry on Wikipedia "The Defense Department ordered 3,200 L-19s that were built between 1950 and 1959. The planes were used in various utility roles such as artillery spotting, front-line communications, medevac and training. In 1962 the army L-19 was redesignated the O-1 (Observation) Bird Dog and entered its second war in Vietnam."

The website that DaveP provided gives a further explanation with the history of the 505th Tactical Control Group:

"By April 1963, 32 PCS Liaison Officers in Vietnam were assigned to each Corps and Division with regiments covered on an "as needed" basis. The VNAF provided L-19 FAC vehicles at division level until the arrival of the 19th TASS with 22 O-1Fs in July 1963."

The ALO were USAF pilots serving as Air Liason Officers. This unit provided the beginnings of Tactical Air Control during the early stages of US involvement in the War.

Now for the "F-19" designation.... Many of these pilots were fighter jocks. They weren't quite thrilled to be considered anything less than a fighter pilot, so they unoffically renamed their aircraft with the "F-19" designation! This is further borne out by the "Mach .2" speed rating, as opposed to "Mach 2"!

This has always been one of my favorite patches, both for the history and dry sense of humor.

See:

http://en.wikipedia....ki/O-1_Bird_Dog

http://www.squawk-fl...5th_history.htm

#27 rje71

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Posted 01 January 2008 - 05:19 PM

Hello .... I was currious if you had any pic's of the whole suits for these 2 ... And if there was any idea about what time frame they may have been used ...

RJ


Two different party suit paches. 20th TASS.

The left on is thai made, the right one japanese.

20th_tass.JPG

NTS



#28 CCKen

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Posted 17 January 2008 - 01:24 PM

Posted Image
Steve, here is a picture of your second unknown patch worn in Vietnam. I do not remember where I found it, but the file name says 19th TASS.


Beezman,

That photo is of A1C James Meade receiving the Air Medal. Jim was a Forward Air Control radio operator with the 19 TASS station at Song Be in support of the 5th Special Foprces. The photo was taken c. 1966.

He says that VNAF used to wear this small F-19 patch but I haven't been able to substatiate that. I will let you know the history of the F-19 patch...if I ever find it out.

The larger F-19 patch was designed by a 19 TASS Forward Air Controller, Vandy Powell, in 1964. He said he was given one of the small F-19 patches but thought a FAC patch should be more than that so he said he designed a new patch. He said He added the O-1 (L-19) with bent wings and Mach .2 (about 120 mph). He said the people he arrived in VN with, April 1964, were all designated Air Liaison Officers/Forward Air Controllers (ALO/FAC) so that is why he put ALO/FAC VIETNAM on top of the patch. He said they seldom had anyone going (flying) with them in the back seat-that they mostly flew alone, so on the bottom he put MOT MINH KHONG SO, the Vietnamese for "Alone amnd Not Afraid". This larger F-19 patch was worn by 19 TASS FACS.

Ken Hinks
O-1 Crew Chief
19 TASS
Bien Hoa/Lai Khe
66/68

#29 River Patrol

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Posted 18 January 2008 - 09:50 AM

Ken,

Thanks for the great information.

Beezman,

Thanks fo rthe photo. It's always good to have photographic evidence of a patch "in wear, in country".

Steve

#30 CCKen

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Posted 18 January 2008 - 12:52 PM

Ken,

Thanks for the great information.

Beezman,

Thanks fo rthe photo. It's always good to have photographic evidence of a patch "in wear, in country".

Steve


Beezman,

I just talked to Vandy and says he had the (larger) patches made in Saigon. He only had six made so if anyone has an original it is very rare.

Cheers,

Ken

#31 River Patrol

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Posted 18 January 2008 - 01:24 PM

Ken,

Did you look at the one I show on the first page of this thread?

Steve

#32 CCKen

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Posted 20 January 2008 - 07:53 AM

Ken,

Did you look at the one I show on the first page of this thread?

Steve


Steve,

Here's a pic of a patch I got from Jim Meade. I haven't confirmed that this is an original patch yet, but take a look at the differences between this patch and yours. I will check on this patch with Vandy Powell and see if it's an original.

Ken


F_19_20Patch_jim_meade.jpg

#33 CCKen

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Posted 21 January 2008 - 04:20 PM

Steve,

Here's a pic of a patch I got from Jim Meade. I haven't confirmed that this is an original patch yet, but take a look at the differences between this patch and yours. I will check on this patch with Vandy Powell and see if it's an original.

Ken
F_19_20Patch_jim_meade.jpg


Here's a pic one of the original patches in Vandy Powell's collection of two. Only four more floating around.

Finished beating this issue to death.

Cheers,

Ken

#34 Howard Kelley

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Posted 21 January 2008 - 05:12 PM

Great thread!

Here are a few from my collection.

Howard

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  • c123.jpg
  • c123a.jpg
  • 23rdTASS1.jpg


#35 Howard Kelley

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Posted 21 January 2008 - 05:19 PM

Here's another FAC patch....unknown to me but was in a VN vet's grouping.

I got tired of looking for information....and sold it!

Enjoy,
Howard

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  • daffy.jpg


#36 River Patrol

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Posted 21 January 2008 - 06:59 PM

Hi Howard

I remember the show when you sold that patch because I almost bought it. I think I know where it lives now! Nice stuff Howard!

Steve

#37 River Patrol

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Posted 21 January 2008 - 07:07 PM

Finished beating this issue to death.

Cheers,

Ken



Hi Ken,

I don't see any NEW picture. And the picture you show of your patch matches the patch I show at the start of this thread (on Page 1).

Take a look again and please clarify.....

Thanks,
Steve

#38 Howard Kelley

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Posted 21 January 2008 - 07:17 PM

Hi Howard

I remember the show when you sold that patch because I almost bought it. I think I know where it lives now! Nice stuff Howard!

Steve



Hello Steve,

Still wish I knew what the insignia represented! It was (and IS) a wierd piece.

Look forward to seeing you at the SOS, or other shows! :D

Best Regards,
Howard

#39 CCKen

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Posted 22 January 2008 - 01:05 PM

Hi Ken,

I don't see any NEW picture. And the picture you show of your patch matches the patch I show at the start of this thread (on Page 1).

Take a look again and please clarify.....

Thanks,
Steve


Steve,

here's Vandy's original patch. There's some differences in most patches I see.


Vandy_Powell__s_original_patch0001_compressed.jpg

#40 CCKen

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Posted 22 January 2008 - 02:20 PM

Here's another FAC patch....unknown to me but was in a VN vet's grouping.

I got tired of looking for information....and sold it!

Enjoy,
Howard


That, I believe, is the U.S. Army Starcom Facilities Control. I don't know what the "FAC" signifies.

Ken


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