Service Hats (Early) c. 1912-1916 Spec. 1145 vs 1177

[CW4AFB]

Some days it's fun to be a National Guard Historian, especially in Virginia---one of the state warehouses recently sent some historical material to the HQ to analyze and curate---along with the 40 or so front seam WW2 helmets and a number of converted to mid-war fittings WWI helmets were some campaign hats.

 

What was really neat was getting to see how the hats were originally sent from the manufacturer to the receiving unit.

The 1940 versions were sent 4 to a cylinder, four cylinders to a box.

 

The earlier version, made by the Sigmund Eisner Company of Red Bank New Jersey and The Ferry Hat Manufacturing Company of NY, appear to have also come in shipping tubes but without external markings, just white cardboard---while most of the hats were jumbled together some still retained the protective shipping material, something I had never seen before....

[CW4AFB]

And while some of the early versions have some damage, the great majority are like this one--almost pristine....

[bobgee]

That is pretty darn neat! Bobgee

[Garandomatic]

Wow...

[CW4AFB]

Here's a little more---there was one campaign hat with this different maker's mark--all the others were Eisner's and Ferry's. And for the button collectors, if you ever wondered how Scoville packaged its products, here's how Virginia received their State Seal buttons ..

 

Al

[dskjl]

That is just too cool.

[gwb123]

Those should be surplussed to the National Park Service, whom I believe still uses them! Who knows what else is in storage!

[CW4AFB]

Those should be surplussed to the National Park Service, whom I believe still uses them! Who knows what else is in storage!

Gil---Great idea but what do we do with these?

 

Al

PS: I'm still not sure many NPS rangers would want to wear 100 year-old hats...

[Old Marine]

It is pretty amazing to see what turns up in the deep recesses of those warehouses. Did you find Indy's Ark of the Covenant yet? Thank for posting the photos.

[everforward]

Gil---Great idea but what do we do with these?

 

Al

PS: I'm still not sure many NPS rangers would want to wear 100 year-old hats...

 

WOW Al, that's awesome..!! Gotta love it.

 

[CW4AFB]

 

WOW Al, that's awesome..!! Gotta love it.

 

 

Thanks John; If we can ever get you out of the mountains and down here to the flatlands, I'll let you check them out and get your opinion on some of the helmets....

Al

 

[sundance]

Great stuff. What a wonderful time you could have wandering through some of those warehouses.

[themick]

I totally love this thread -- a real time capsule. I like it all, but my favorite are the campaign hats with the original chin straps and in the original packing. So, I have to ask, once you get done curating all of this, what happens to it all? I'm assuming since it is still on government inventory that it can't be sold. Is that correct? So, do you just ship it back to the state warehouse that sent it to you? Are they free, for instance, to discard all the packing material of the campaign hats and just stack them on top on each other in a corner where they become moth bate? There are so many helmets -- why would the state warehouse even want to keep them? Sad to see them just sent back and not taken care of. I'd pay lots of money for one of the campaign hats in the original packing material.

 

Steve

[Schnicklfritz]

Gil---Great idea but what do we do with these?

 

Al

PS: I'm still not sure many NPS rangers would want to wear 100 year-old hats...

 

Sell them! I need a liner for a unique M17A1 helmet.

 

[CW4AFB]

I totally love this thread -- a real time capsule. I like it all, but my favorite are the campaign hats with the original chin straps and in the original packing. So, I have to ask, once you get done curating all of this, what happens to it all? I'm assuming since it is still on government inventory that it can't be sold. Is that correct? So, do you just ship it back to the state warehouse that sent it to you? Are they free, for instance, to discard all the packing material of the campaign hats and just stack them on top on each other in a corner where they become moth bate? There are so many helmets -- why would the state warehouse even want to keep them? Sad to see them just sent back and not taken care of. I'd pay lots of money for one of the campaign hats in the original packing material.

 

Steve

Steve---thanks for the kind note---Don't worry--after we get this stuff documented and cleaned up a bit, it will all be well cared for (even the packing material)---we still have 3 regiments in the state with ties to WWI--the 116th Infantry, the 111th Field Artillery and the 246th Artillery so eventually their Armories will receives some---

we also have 3 very fine Virginia military museums in the state--the War Museum in New port News, the War Memorial in Richmond, and the 116th Inf Museum near Staunton (and the US Army Quartermaster Museum at Fort Lee) and they will receive some if they want. I'll have to talk to the JAG and see if we will be allowed to selectively trade some with other organizations in exchange for Virginia National Guard significant material. We are very fortunate in Virginia to have a State Adjutant General who believes that military history is a key component of a unit's overall health and status.

I don't know if you saw last year where we recovered a WWI war-trophy German Minenwerfer that had been "borrowed" from one of our armories 50 years ago--As soon as I told him what I had found and where, his only question was "What do you need from me?' The minenwerfer is now scheduled for display at our new HQ which should open in Dec/Jan....

Al

[everforward]

 

Thanks John; If we can ever get you out of the mountains and down here to the flatlands, I'll let you check them out and get your opinion on some of the helmets....

Al

 

 

Hey, I'm there..! Let's set a date, just e-mail me when it's good.

 

[themick]

Thanks Al, for your great reply. Sounds like the gear will go to good homes for preservation and appreciation. I hadn't see the story about the Meinenwerfer. Cool!!

 

Steve

[Lee Ragan]

Those should be surplussed to the National Park Service, whom I believe still uses them! Who knows what else is in storage!

The hat the NPS uses are totally different than these. They are shaped the same, but the park service hats are made of a different type material and appear to be thicker. And the color is different.

Nice find.

[CW4AFB]

The hat the NPS uses are totally different than these. They are shaped the same, but the park service hats are made of a different type material and appear to be thicker. And the color is different.

Nice find.

 

Lee--I'm thinking he was just funnin' us....I hope...Although recently the National Park Service guys in Richmond lent me a 1913 dated map they found that appeared to show a Command Post Exercise from the 1920s where the 29th Division and the 80th Division were attacking up the Peninsula towards downtown Richmond---we photographed the map and plan to use it in the new HQ building---pretty cool item....

Al

 

[jpstout]

Outstanding items! The 29ers aren't bad, either.

[Dr_rambow]

Wow, that's very cool! I love seeing the original packaging for this stuff!

I have a lot of photos and material for the other regiments in the 29th, but I can't for the life of me find a 116th Infantry specific unit history (divisional history notwithstanding) or photos of the 116th in France. Do you know where I should look for this kind of information?

I would really like to pin down a few questions on the equipment they had once going into the lines in 1918.

[Bluehawk]

We are very fortunate in Virginia to have a State Adjutant General who believes that military history is a key component of a unit's overall health and status.

 

Yes!

 

Very fortunate. indeed!

[mikie]

Great post. We used to play with my Dad's campaign hat he was issued when he joined the New York National Guard in 1940. I have no idea what happened to the hat after I moved out. But now I want one! By the way, one of Dad's duties was guard duty at the local armory. He said there was a huge room filled with all sorts of German WWI weapons and equipment. Rifles, machine guns, helmets, you name it. He said he was sorely tempted to liberate one or two pieces, but never did. One night he went into the room to poke around and it was completely empty. He never did find out what happened to it all.

Mikie

[CW4AFB]

Wow, that's very cool! I love seeing the original packaging for this stuff!

 

I have a lot of photos and material for the other regiments in the 29th, but I can't for the life of me find a 116th Infantry specific unit history (divisional history notwithstanding) or photos of the 116th in France. Do you know where I should look for this kind of information?

 

I would really like to pin down a few questions on the equipment they had once going into the lines in 1918.

Todd--the best thing I have found for 116th History is the "History of the 116th US Infantry Regiment" compiled by Henry F. Seal Jr in 1953---it's not easy to find but every once in a while you'll see one pop up---I haven't seen many photos of the 116th in action in the Meuse - Argonne but one of our USMF brethren here (Ever Forward) is named John and he is a super knowledgeable guy and even volunteers at the 116th Museum ....When I was writing the 29th ID in the 20th Century book, John kept me on the straight and narrow for all things about the Stonewall Brigade....

Al

[LarryM3]

Hey Al, don't forget me, I'd like to see those items, could make a good article!

 

Larry