Three war veteran Sergeant Major

[MattS]

This is hanging in a VFW hall in Ohio. It was found without a name on it and they wondered if there was anyway to trace who this might have been. The ribbons show World War II service in both Europe and the Pacific, Korea, and Vietnam. Any ideas how to research this without a name?

[Jumpin Jack]

Considering the Pacific and European Campaign ribbons, and the Canadian wings, I would start with a Veteran of the FSSF. Jack

[Martinjmpr]

Dang, that SGM was hardcore!

 

82nd Airborne combat patch COULD be Vietnam or WWII. But how many members of the 82nd would have fought in the Pacific theater? Maybe recruited for the FSSF out of the 82nd?

[1st AAA Group]

Some possible scenarios. Probably unlikely, but yah never know.

Could have been wounded with the 82nd and sent back to the US and did not return to the ETO. At some point after recovering reenlisted and sent to the PTO during the time period which would have qualified him for that campaign.

or....

He was a high point man and was one of the first batches to be sent back home. Reenlists and after leave is shipped out to the PTO also during the qualifying time period.

[MattS]

Only other photo I have.

[Andrei]

There is a list of the 3rd award CIB winners of the SF in case this SGM was infantry and if he won the CIB for each war to include VN service with the SF.

[Andrei]

I found the list. According to Radix Press, the SGM with third award CIB are:

 

- Fred E. Davis, Sr

- Charles R. Ferguson

- Carlos E. Leal, Jr

- Thomas S. Nameth

- James O. Schmidt

- Marvin Wells

 

Note that the list has several names listed without ranks

[MattS]

Let's work off that list. Fred E. Davis died in 1995 in Fayetteville, NC.

https://army.togetherweserved.com/army/servlet/tws.webapp.WebApp?cmd=ShadowBoxProfile&type=Person&ID=347286

[Brian Keith]

A shot of the ribbons would be helpful. A close inspection of the uniform to see if there is evidence of a CIB and/or wings having been attached would also help. If he retired as a Special Forces SGM, is there any searchable data bases or organizations?

BKW

[patches]

Let's work off that list. Fred E. Davis died in 1995 in Fayetteville, NC.

https://army.togetherweserved.com/army/servlet/tws.webapp.WebApp?cmd=ShadowBoxProfile&type=Person&ID=347286

Thanks for that link Matt, I didn't find this when I googled his name for my topic on 3 CIB holders, now I'll add this.

 

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/268875-the-wwii-korea-vietnam-3rd-award-combat-infantryman-badge-holders-photos-and-biographies/page-6&do=findComment&comment=2267715

[patches]

Maybe combat patch is for service in 3rd Brigade 82nd Airborne Brigade Vietnam, maybe member seanmc1114 might have a roster, and will list brigade E-8 and E-9s.

[MattS]

This link has a nice article on James O. Schmidt, who served in the 504th PIR, 82nd Airborne in WW2 (making combat jumps in Sicily and Salerno), was at Inchon in Korea, and retired as a SGM in 1965.

http://specialforces78.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/1215-Sentinel-News.pdf

[e19]

I found the list. According to Radix Press, the SGM with third award CIB are:

 

- Fred E. Davis, Sr

- Charles R. Ferguson

- Carlos E. Leal, Jr

- Thomas S. Nameth

- James O. Schmidt

- Marvin Wells

 

Note that the list has several names listed without ranks

SGM Hugh H Talley is missing from that list. He was one of the first to receive the award in Vietnam (WWII, Korea, RVN). He was a MSG at the time.

 

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/186816-3rd-award-combat-infantrymans-badge-ceremony-rvn/

[Longhorn92]

Is that an SF tab?

[Martinjmpr]

Is that an SF tab?

 

No, pretty sure this SGM would have retired before 1983 when the SF tab was authorized. Still more than likely SF qualified though.

 

What is on the uniform is the standard SF patch with airborne tab, AKA the "electric butter knife."

 

EDITED TO ADD: On further inspection, I stand corrected. The uniform does appear to have the SF tab. That MIGHT date the uniform a bit, if the SGM retired after 1983 although it's also possible that the tab was added after he retired.

[zad82nd]

Fred Davis- 3rd Ranger Battalion WWII, 3rd Airborne Ranger Company Korea, SF Vietnam

 

Chuck Ferguson- 30th Infantry Regiment- 3rd Infantry Division WWII, 187th ABRCT Korea, SF early Vietnam, 173rd Vietnam, SF again Vietnam

 

Neither have had any Combat service with the 82nd ABN

 

Both retired as Command Sergeants Majors

 

Both were Ranger qualified (Davis was a Ranger's Ranger!!)

 

Both recipients of the 3rd award Combat Infantryman's badge

 

I'm lucky to have their complete service records with a few uniforms

 

Cheers!

 

v/r

James

[Stinger Gunner USMC]

Am I missing something? Are we looking for possible matches on the assumption that this was one of the few 3x CIB recipients? I don't see any jump wings or CIB on this jacket, yet alone the presence of a SF tab when there is almost no way a WWII vet would have still been active in 83 to have worn this tab.if this was on ebay everyone would be poking fun at this jacket. Could it have been added for a reunion - sure, but I would want to see a clear shot of the ribbons and try to confirm a vet based on personal decorations actually on the uniform vs. guessing that he might have had 3 CIBs

[Andrei]

Am I missing something? Are we looking for possible matches on the assumption that this was one of the few 3x CIB recipients? I don't see any jump wings or CIB on this jacket, yet alone the presence of a SF tab when there is almost no way a WWII vet would have still been active in 83 to have worn this tab.if this was on ebay everyone would be poking fun at this jacket. Could it have been added for a reunion - sure, but I would want to see a clear shot of the ribbons and try to confirm a vet based on personal decorations actually on the uniform vs. guessing that he might have had 3 CIBs

The third award CIB was a wild guess to look for a lead to ID the MSG.

The SF tab was retroactively given to all SF qualified personnels of the VN war, correct me if I am wrong.

[Stinger Gunner USMC]

The third award CIB was a wild guess to look for a lead to ID the MSG.

The SF tab was retroactively given to all SF qualified personnels of the VN war, correct me if I am wrong.

I do believe your correct on the tab, however the chance a WWII veteran was still on active duty to have sewn this tab on when it was created is unlikely, and not many of us bother to add ribbons, or other insignia to our uniforms after we have left the service.

I would be interested in seeing the ribbons up close. from the fuzzy photo in the post it appears there is a VN Honor Medal 1st class on the ribbon rack. To my knowledge the award in this grade was nearly exclusively for officers and an enlisted man would have received the 2nd class grade of the Honor Medal. I am just curious if there is anything else "unusual" about it. I'm not saying unusual is bad, but could provide a more solid starting point to identify a veteran or to determine authenticity

 

[MattS]

You're right, we are taking stabs in the dark on this and don't even know if it's all original or not. Collar brass, DIs, nameplate, and any pin-on qualification badges are gone, but I doubt this VFW is trying to deceive anyone, they are just looking for answers. Maybe the answer is that this is a put-together?

[e19]

The third award CIB was a wild guess to look for a lead to ID the MSG.

The SF tab was retroactively given to all SF qualified personnels of the VN war, correct me if I am wrong.

Only if the individual was still on active/reserve duty in 83. All others had to send a request with documentation of qualification to JFKSWC. I waited till 2006 to request mine.