My newly started collection

[wackyd]

Hello again folks,

 

I am still working to document my newly acquired collection (my grandfather passed away at 85 earlier this year and I have been entrusted with his collection).

 

One question I wanted to start with is; are PX or commercial knives that we used by members of the military fair to include in a "military" collection or do we section off a collection into issue knives and otherwise?

 

 

My grandfather was very much interested in our military history and strongly infatuated with WWII (and the background of strategies on both sides). But his also purchased a number of modern fighting knives that are not that engaging to me.

 

I'll work on pictures in the coming days, but the following is what I call my military knife collection.

 

The Collection of J. Toon:

 

 

Knives:

Camillus Air Force Survival Knife (1973)

Cattaragus 225Q

Ontario USN MK III

PAL USN MK I

 

Gerber Command II

Gerber Patriot

KaBar Model 1209

Phrobis All Purpose Modular Field Knife (U.S. Manufacture, patent pending)

Puma White Hunter (4/67 Manufacture)

Unknown F-S Fighting Knife, marked Sheffield England

 

 

Bayonets:

Oneida Ltd M1905, uncut 1943

Oneida Ltd M1905E1, cut by PAL to spear point

Utica M1905E1, cut without mark, beak point

Union Fork and Hoe M1

Camillus M4

Utica M4

Milpar M5A1

Milpar M6

Unknown M6 (Eickhorn?)

Imperial M7

Ontario M7

 

Other:

Kiffe Knockoff M1917 Repro with original 1919 PHS sheath

 

 

 

Again, I will work on pictures, but I would like your thoughts on whether my second group of knives can rightly sit in a military knife collection.

[siclfde]

That is a conundrum that has vexed collectors for a while. There are differing opinions.

 

Personally, I view a military collection as containing those knives used by the military. So my military collection includes issue knives, knives that were bought from PX or commercially, and those made (theater knives) for military use (esp in WWII) by civilians and military machine shops (e.g. motor pools, aboard ships, etc).

 

I always enjoy when I find a non-issue knife that has a provenance that would presume military and especially war time use.

 

Others view military knives as only issue knives.

 

I think you make your own definition that pleases you and not worry much about what the rest of us think.

 

Cliff

[porterkids]

I collect primarily bayonets but also have a decent number of knives. Most are military but some are not. My collecting philosophy is pretty simple, I buy what I like. It's my collection and it really doesn't have to conform to anyone's definition or idea except mine. Collect what you like!

[thorin6]

A lot of service people carried non-issued knives; in Vietnam the Buck 110, the Western Bowie, and various Randall's, Case knives, and Gerbers were popular. Look through Coles' books and you'll see them. Many non-issued knives are not well documented but you can see them in period photos. So have fun and do your research and you'll have a collection that will make you happy

[bayonetman]

You are getting good advice. It is well known that all sorts of "commercial" and "theater" and so forth knives were and are being used by US service members.

 

There are "issue" knives and "purchased" knives and "brought from home" knives. In my opinion, they are all collectible. As said above, if you like it, great! It is your collection and should contain whatever you like.

 

If you do find some that have a military history, be sure to document whatever you know about them so the next generation will have the story even if it is just a name. Just don't fall into the trap of embellishing the story, and keep in mind that the story that came with it may not be totally correct!

[SKIPH]

wackyd-As the other guys stated, it's all good advice. Buy what you like. Gary and Bill are correct about what troops carry. In my 20+ years of service I carried a wide variety of knives, Buck 110, Gerber Pete's Friend, Gerber MK2, German Bowie Knife w/ 10" blade, Swiss Army knife, Kiffe Bolo, Ontario Machete, and Camillus MK2s. That's just me. Everyone else I served with was about the same, always looking for that special knife. Ended up carrying a Camiilus MK2 most of my career, and favored my Swiss Army Knife (Champion) which has constantly been in my pocket for 34 years. Buy and collect what you want! At some point you will start to focus on one particular type. We did!!! SKIP

[Redleg13a]

I had a repro M3 and a Kinsfolk hunting knife during my deployment.

[wackyd]

As a kid, I had a pocketknife collection and two fixed blade knifes from my dad and the same grandfather from whom I inherited this collection, but I always dreamed of buying a Buck Special. If I had just known a little about military knives at the time, I could have put my pocket knife dollars to a much better use.

 

I have pushed some of the Reservists in my office to take some of the modern utility/fighting knives, but so far only found a home for a Becker BKT-7 and a CRKT Seal Tac II (went to a guy who lost his USMC MK2 in a motorcycle wreck).

 

Pondering it, I will probably keep a few of the modern knives that are plainly inspired by issue knives and that I can find evidence of use in the modern services.

 

When I collected as a kid, it was organic, just happened as I had interest and funds to spend. The next collection will be more intentional.

 

 

I think an M3 (or too) will be the first new piece for the collection. When I get a chance to document some CMP stocks (Springfield, Garand and Carbine) that also came my way, I'll hopefully get a For Trade post put together.

 

 

Thanks folks!

 

 

Daniel

[wackyd]

Here's a try at pictures! Hope it works. Daniel

 

DBT Knives (1) by D T, on Flickr

 

DBT Knives (2) by D T, on Flickr

 

DBT Knives (3) by D T, on Flickr

 

DBT Knives (4) by D T, on Flickr

 

DBT Knives (5) by D T, on Flickr

 

DBT Knives (6) by D T, on Flickr

[bobcat87]

Beautiful collection. Thanks for sharing!

[SKIPH]

Daniel- You, are well on your way to the knife collecting addiction. Don't worry we, the support group, are here for you! We will assist in your quest to satisfy all knife collecting cravings. WELCOME, to the group! LOL! SKIP

[wackyd]

Thanks SKIP and thanks all.

 

 

With these, anything to look out for regarding reproductions? I know the Kiffe is a remake, but the shiny, uncut 1905 makes me wonder. My grandfather was cheap to be blunt and if he saw a great deal, he might not have run it down to make sure it was real.

 

IMG_7022 by D T, M1905

IMG_7023 by D T, M1905 Handle

 

 

Also, is it fair to say Eickhorn never had a U.S. contract or did Colt supply Eickhorn bayonets under a contract?

IMG_7032 by D T, No name M6

IMG_7034 by D T, No name M6 close

IMG_7035 by D T, No name M6 guard

 

 

Also, I assume this is a late or modern no name F-S knife, no marking I can find except the blade stamp and the sheath is not like any issue one I have seen.

IMG_7015 by D T, F-S

IMG_7016 by D T, F-S close

 

 

 

 

Thanks!

 

 

Maybe I will catalog the machetes next, the only really interesting one seems to just be a modern British Golok, but I need to spend more time with them - and this site has me wondering if some other bayonets I assumed were foreign might just be older models or lesser known rifles.

 

And then comes the folding knives - at least one looks like it could be an issue knife.

 

 

So much steel, so little time!

[sactroop]

Colt didn't supply M6 bayonets to anyone. Eickhorn did make bayonets for some countries militaries, not U.S. . I don't know which types or which countries other than Haiti.

The F-S knife does remind me of many that were common in the 70's, I'm used to seeing the "Sheffield" stamped on the guard, so it being blade stamped may help with dating it.

[porterkids]

Eickhorn made one bayonet for the US military. We've discussed it here in the past:

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/83973-my-bayonet-2000/

[sactroop]

Yes my bad. When I was looking over the blades posted in #12 I must of walked back to the last century.

[wackyd]

So, back to the trunk of sharp things and found two Garcia Survival Knives and a plastic handled F-S that I assume is pretty recent production?

 

 

Garcias (1) by D T, on Flickr

 

Garcias (2) by D T, on Flickr

 

F-S Plastic Handle Sheffield (1) by D T, on Flickr

 

F-S Plastic Handle Sheffield (2) by D T, on Flickr

 

 

Any thoughts?

[doyler]

The William Rodgers knife looks like a WW2 era private purchase knife to me.

 

There were many cutlery makers in the Sheffield who produced knives for private sale and used the FS/Commando pattern type blade for a dagger.

 

Various handle material were used.Leather washer,Stag horn etc.

 

I have two examples one Marked TAYLOR-EYE WITNESS BRAND with the logo on the blade.Came from a WW2 82nd Airborne Officer.Another came from a 113th Cav veteran in the same pattern.

[doyler]

Here are two private purchase I own