Oil blades? Remove rust?

[wackyd]

Hello all,

 

 

Just joined and also just inherited a collection of knives and bayonets after my grandfather passed away earlier in the year.

 

Through reading this site, I have learned some things that should probably be obvious, like storing knives in the sheath can promote rust and that full restoration of a knife may reduce its collectible value.

 

With that said, what is the best thing to do for light surface rust? My thoughts were a little gun oil rubbed on the blade and that should help even with storage. Is 0000 steel wool sensible as well? Or just leave the rust?

 

 

If appropriate, I will make another post to display what I have and what my research leads me believe as far as models/types.

 

 

 

Thanks and thank you for having me.

 

 

Daniel

 

 

[Still-A-Marine]

Welcome to the forum. Yes. 0000 gun oil and steel wool. You will feel when the rust is lifted because the the steel wool will glide across the metal without restriction. Once that occurs - STOP.

 

Bill

[Reforger]

Oil and fine steel wool sounds good. Depending on the amount of rust, pretreatment with lemon juice may be worth it as well.

[jw517]

Less is always more. You cannot get rid of what the rust did. Just prevent it from going further. Don't store them in sheaths,that's correct. A lot depends on if the knife is mint or heavily used also. Oil,oil,oil! Don't oil the leather parts.

[Sgt. BARney]

Welcome to the Forum. I am a fairly new member and have found this forum to be a great resource with lots of knowledgeable people willing to share info and provide help.

 

Yep, I agree - oil the metal parts. I sure don't recommend using any rust removers (like naval jelly), as this will leave some bare pitting in the blade which (to me) is less appealing than some dark oiled rust spots. I learned this the hard way. The goal is to try and halt further degradation.

[Bob Hudson]

Instead of oil, try those Scotch nylon scubbing pads: they cannot harm the metal (nylon being slightly less stronger than steel and iron), but will remove active brown rust. I soak them with WD-40 and wipe in circles.

[Blacksmith]

I have a somewhat contrarian view, which will likely be met with disfavor. I've seen Mk II fighting knives that have been in their leather sheaths for 70 years, and are spotless. I think the real enemy is humidity, not leather. Not to say storing them out of the sheath is a bad recommendation - I just don't believe it's necessary. The quandry with most fighting knives, is they often consist of components with different ideal climates - steel and leather. So the real trick is making it dry enough to ward off moisture, but not so dry as to turn the sheaths into pork rinds. Using the right lubricant is important too. There are already threads specific to this subject, so I'll suffice to say I've never had an issue with Ballistol.

[jw517]

I use Balistol on most steel,guns,knives. I think it's fine. The problem with leather sheathes is you don't know what chemicals still remain from the tanning process. Let's face it,first they heavily salt the hides,then soak them in Oxalic acid or some other corrosive acid,then they are soaked in the tanning liquor. I've seen the damage it can do especially to Western polished blades when left in the sheathes. Ugly! I've seen some old sheaths that were in the Pacific Theater mold while the one next to it does not. It's best to play it safe when your the caretaker of a Historic item.

[ccyooper]

For storage many of the leading museums have found that a crystal wax such renaissance wax works better than oil for rust prevention and preservation. Expensive but something to consider as a little goes a long way. If you google it, there are many articles written about its use and success during events that caused damage like the hurricanes did a few years ago. Something to consider.

[John762]

I have a somewhat contrarian view, which will likely be met with disfavor. I've seen Mk II fighting knives that have been in their leather sheaths for 70 years, and are spotless. I think the real enemy is humidity, not leather. Not to say storing them out of the sheath is a bad recommendation - I just don't believe it's necessary. The quandry with most fighting knives, is they often consist of components with different ideal climates - steel and leather. So the real trick is making it dry enough to ward off moisture, but not so dry as to turn the sheaths into pork rinds. Using the right lubricant is important too. There are already threads specific to this subject, so I'll suffice to say I've never had an issue with Ballistol.

I love Ballistol, I've used it for years. I'm not 100% sure but I've read that its mostly mineral oil???

[Blacksmith]

Certainly, folks should do what makes them most comfortable.

 

I'd assert that any potential damage the tanning process could cause on a steel blade is done (or not) before 70 years (e.g. - has achieved neutrality). I'm also a fan of "not broke = don't fix it". Too cavalier? Maybe.

 

Manage humidity, take 'em out occasionally and wipe them with light coat of oil, done.

 

Lastly, and not trying to be provocative, an item being mint or not does not impact it's historical significance. Yes, we should be good custodians, and take the best possible care, but I'm not going to stress about it.

 

 

 

I use Balistol on most steel,guns,knives. I think it's fine. The problem with leather sheathes is you don't know what chemicals still remain from the tanning process. Let's face it,first they heavily salt the hides,then soak them in Oxalic acid or some other corrosive acid,then they are soaked in the tanning liquor. I've seen the damage it can do especially to Western polished blades when left in the sheathes. Ugly! I've seen some old sheaths that were in the Pacific Theater mold while the one next to it does not. It's best to play it safe when your the caretaker of a Historic item.

[jw517]

I'm just saying I wouldn't take steel wool after a mint blade. I would not oil a light colored MK2 sheath that is mint either. It changes the color to dark.Spot treat the rust to stop it.

[jw517]

For storage many of the leading museums have found that a crystal wax such renaissance wax works better than oil for rust prevention and preservation. Expensive but something to consider as a little goes a long way. If you google it, there are many articles written about its use and success during events that caused damage like the hurricanes did a few years ago. Something to consider.

Skip educated me on a great product to use in place of Renaissance Wax. Are you sitting down? It's Neutral shoe polish. Great on all leather items were talking about. No color charge.

[John762]

Skip educated me on a great product to use in place of Renaissance Wax. Are you sitting down? It's Neutral shoe polish. Great on all leather items were talking about. No color charge.

That's interesting also, In a big fan of Pecards for leather, it seems to help rehydrate dried leather. I can't say it won't change the color slightly but I don't have anything that's so new that it would ever be an issue. :-)

[jw517]

There are a lot of different things like that . I made/make my own too. I kept bees for a few years and have a lot of wax so I made my famous, Smutty Smitty's Best Bee's Wax Boot & Leather Balm. Yes,I'm serious. It's mainly bees wax and does a great job. Time for my medication now.

[SKIPH]

I like to use LSA Lubricant on all my knives, bayonets, and machetes. For those of you not familiar with LSA, it is a thicker oil product that does not evaporate easily, and is designed for humid climates like here in NC especially during the summer. You can pick it up at most gun shows in small containers. I use a good old shaving brush to apply a thin coat. Works great! I also store my knives in the scabbards and have never had an issue in 50 yrs of collecting. We all have different, but good ways to store and preserve our collections. SKIP

[wackyd]

Thanks for the feedback folks!

 

He lived in Florida - and we ended up finding some of the best service knives in his old flight bag in the attic! Along with a pile of loose M2 cartridges.

 

 

I think I will start with a light oil on the ones that seem to call for it.

 

 

The leather seems good on most, but I also haven't made a good call on the leather handles - reading some of the references on museum storage, they don't make me feel good about using any product on them.

 

 

I can't really claim a single perfect specimen, but some well kept and some well used.

 

 

Thanks again for the feedback and welcome!

 

Daniel

[TALLYHO]

There is an excellent youtube video out there from a knife maker who addresses this issue

Using 1095 steel blade blanks he applies various products . Each blade has one of the products applied to it as well as having a blued and acid patinaed blade. He then exposes them outside to the elements for about a month. Believe it or not 3n1 oil (the cheapest) by far out preformed all the other products that he tried. Its a must see video. .

[jw517]

Yep,3in one. I used Rem oil for a while but a while after I applied it,it was gone,dried up, not there. I then went to 3in one. It sticks around a while and you can see you oiled the blades. Balistol does the same,however it's not cheap.

[Ronnie]

For me this is the most unbelievable thing I've come across for removing rust. It's not steel wool and it won't damage gun bluing.

Ronnie

[SKIPH]

Ronnie is right this is great stuff, have seen it work. Ed Hicks at "WARPATH MILITARIA", showed me how great this was 10-12 years ago. Very good product! SKIP

[jw517]

Isn't that a Curly Kate? Reminds me I have to do the dishes. Thanks. Must be brass?

[Blacksmith]

3-in-1 Oil is awesome, and the smell, like Hoppes No. 9, conjures up fond memories from my youth.

 

Without going too 'propeller hat', do a web search for "resinification", which is the process by which lubricants effectively 'dry out'.

 

The way to combat that, is by introducing anti-oxidants to increase longevity.

 

The point above regarding acids used in the leather tanning process adds the notion of pH to the conversation. Neutral pH, as you may recall from HS Chemistry is 7.0. Anything acidic would be less than 7.0, and anything alkaline would be higher. In either case, farther from 7.0 is a more extreme value. An example would be vinegar (3.0), which is highly acidic - explaining why some bladesmiths use mustard to beautifully etch knives. What does all this mean? An ideal lubricant would have a pH level somewhat elevated from neutral, so it could work to neutralize mild acids it comes in contact with. While I'm not harking Ballistol, they've engineered this into their product.

 

A great example of mild acids would be those found on sweaty 'french fry fingers' pawing at your knives, guns, etc.

 

Last point on leather, is that both too low and too high humidity can be a problem. So controlling it is best option. Beyond that, I don't recommend treating collectable leather with anything, period.

 

Yep,3in one. I used Rem oil for a while but a while after I applied it,it was gone,dried up, not there. I then went to 3in one. It sticks around a while and you can see you oiled the blades. Balistol does the same,however it's not cheap.

[sactroop]

I'll just add that you don't want to use something that just looks like this, (big 45 frontier metal cleaner). You want to use the genuine article. But yes I was very impressed when I tried it. Still I usually rely on 0000 steel wool. Always with liquid, not dry.

Also when it comes to the synthetic pads 3M used to only consider the white ones as fine enough to be compared to 0000 steel wool. I tried experimenting with the different ones and on fine finishes the green scotch bright pads were too course and would leave scratches behind. The white pads are even less aggressive than 0000 steel wool, so it takes awhile to remove the rust with those.

[jw517]

I feel sometimes it's impossible to keep steel and leather happy in the same location. I'm in Wi. And it usually isn't too humid here in the summer but this year it rained more than usual. Everything in the house was moist even with a dehumidifier. I bought some of those anti corrosion things you stick inside drawers,tackle boxes,etc. They are suppose to emit a chemical to help out but do they really work? Who knows. I found mold on boots in my closet it was so bad.