New US Navy rates - militaria

[Bluehawk]

Militaria educational purposes only:

 

What will the new Navy rates look like physically, and if at all how will everything be different or the same after 241 years?

 

Kind of confusing at the moment, for landlubbers and airmen.

 

For example: It is being said that "USN" now stands for "Unity, Service, Navigation" - Is that so?

 

It could be so helpful if someone knowledgeable about this could please post images and descriptions of the new rates, and any information possible about how a militaria collector or historian could be better informed from here on.

 

Thank you

[MastersMate]

Betting it will be a few years before the managers get around to making a physical appearance change. Might be just as simple as dropping the specialty mark and leaving a generic grade insignia of eagle and chevrons. This is already being done with the collar insignia on the black and tan service uniform. The Coast Guard went with the generic rate insignia in 1976.

 

The USN cute little slogan sounds like a hold over from the 1990s TQM management scheme when EVERYTHING had to have some hidden "tradition" to make it meaningful to the employees. The Coast Guard was big into that sort of stuff.

[zsmith]

It's not new rates... it's more like getting rid of rates altogether and going with rank.

 

So instead of a MMC (Chief Machinist Mate) or an ETC (Chief Electronics Technician) you would now be a CPO (Chief Petty Officer). An MM3 (Machinist Mate 3rd Class) would now be a PO3 (Petty Officer 3rd Class).

 

The only real difference in the badges would be the removal of the rating symbol.

[MastersMate]

IF the USN stays with the current style uniform, then the basic design of the rating badge is an integral part of that identity. I agree, the specialty mark will go away and just a generic crow to indicate pay grade. Only to be seen on blues or whites...That eagle and chevron/s design IS the USN uniform.

[Bluehawk]

Thank you, so much, all.

 

Has anyone SEEN anything that might actually SHOW what the new rates/ranks/speciality markings etc etc etc might or will be?

[MastersMate]

One article, on another web site, concerning the change noted that designing new insignia was low on the totem pole..

[Bluehawk]

Problem solved:

 

"zNavy leaders are reversing their controversial decision to eliminate sailors’ ratings and will restore job titles across the fleet, according to a Navy message set for release Wednesday.

Effective immediately, enlisted sailors will officially regain their ratings, the traditional job titles that have inspired a deep cultural loyalty and that have defined enlisted career tracks for generations, Navy officials said.

The move comes three months after the Navy stunned sailors around the world in September by eliminated ratings titles, including those such as boatswain’s mate that dated back to the founding of the service.

The extraordinarily rare move comes after a fierce backlash from the fleet that became a distraction from the Navy's broader effort to reform the antiquated personnel system, Navy officials said.

Adm. John Richardson, the chief of naval operations, called it a “course correction” and acknowledged the overwhelmingly negative reaction from the fleet was a key factor in the decision."

 

https://www.navytimes.com/articles/ratings-restored-effective-immediately-sailors-will-get-their-job-titles-back

 

[Salvage Sailor]

When will the zeros learn.....if it ain't broke....

[topdcnut]

When you consider how long it took to get Dungarees and Cracker Jacks back this was fast, but then again there was no social media back in the 70-80's

[sigsaye]

When you consider how long it took to get Dungarees and Cracker Jacks back this was fast, but then again there was no social media back in the 70-80's

. The big thing to remember is that NOTHING actually changed. Rating badges were retained. They said they were not going to bother with those for now. To me, it looks like they got pushed into a position, "Babbeled some BS" to meet requirements and then when "The Change" happened, put it all back, wiped their hands of the whole thing and had a beer.

[nibs]

This is my first post. I hope I am in the right place. I have a photo of my deceased brother's PC-583 shipmates taken in September 1943. (My brother was a Chief Yeoman.) They are dressed in whites. Some have rate insignia on the left sleeve, some on the right. Can anyone tell my why that is? Also, some of the men in the photo have a stripe circling the upper right of their uniform at the shoulder. Can anyone tell me the significance of that? I have some additional questions that are probably not appropriate for this forum. So if there are any experts out there on PCs or Navy abbreviations, e.g. SERFORPAC, I'd appreciate a response.

 

[sigsaye]

Until 1948, Ssilors who's rates (jobs) were part of the DECK GROUP, wore their insignia on the right sleeve. These were Boatswain Mates, Quartermasters (navigators in the Navy), Signalmen (visual communications), Gunners Mates, Fire Controlmen (operate and maintain weapons directors and pull the triggers on big guns), Torpedomen, and Minemen. All others wore their insignia on the left.

 

The stripe around the shoulder is called a Group Rate Mark. They were worn by men who were not rated Petty Officers. Deck Groupwore theirs around the right shoulder (white on blues, blue on whites). Engineering wore a red stripe around the left shoulder.

 

SERVFORPACIFIC means Service Force Pacific.

[Bluehawk]

sigsaye

 

I suppose if there were to have been any carrier deck sailors, at that point their rates would have been on the right sleeve too?

 

I'm imagining about yellow jackets and guys like that today.

[Justin B.]

sigsaye

 

I suppose if there were to have been any carrier deck sailors, at that point their rates would have been on the right sleeve too?

 

I'm imagining about yellow jackets and guys like that today.

 

Every rate was part of a "branch." Ratings of the Seaman Branch were distinguished from the other branches with the right-sleeve rating badge because in the old days they were the ones who took charge on deck and it was desirable for them to "stand out." The WW2 Seaman Branch ratings in order of precedence were:

 

• Boatswain's Mate
• Turret Captain
• Gunner's Mate
• Mineman
• Torpedoman's Mate
• Quartermaster
• Signalman
• Fire Controlman

 

The aviation ratings were all left-arm. One, Torpedoman's Mate (V) which specialized in aerial torpedoes, was an Aviation Branch rating and wore a badge similar to the regular TM but on the left arm.

 

The branches were replaced by "groups" in 1948 and the left arm became standard for all rates.

 

Justin B.

[Bluehawk]

Thank you for explaining...

[nibs]

Until 1948, Ssilors who's rates (jobs) were part of the DECK GROUP, wore their insignia on the right sleeve. These were Boatswain Mates, Quartermasters (navigators in the Navy), Signalmen (visual communications), Gunners Mates, Fire Controlmen (operate and maintain weapons directors and pull the triggers on big guns), Torpedomen, and Minemen. All others wore their insignia on the left.

 

The stripe around the shoulder is called a Group Rate Mark. They were worn by men who were not rated Petty Officers. Deck Groupwore theirs around the right shoulder (white on blues, blue on whites). Engineering wore a red stripe around the left shoulder.

 

SERVFORPACIFIC means Service Force Pacific.

 

[nibs]

Thank you very much sigsaye. I assume then that my brother, Chief Yeoman, would wear rate on right sleeve and a black stripe on right shoulder!

[sigsaye]

Thank you very much sigsaye. I assume then that my brother, Chief Yeoman, would wear rate on right sleeve and a blactk stripe on right shoulder!

. No. Yeoman rating badge went on left sleeve. When you became a rated petty officer, the shoulder stripe was removed.

[nibs]

OK, Sigsaye. You've been very helpful. And if you don't mind, one last question. Can you estimate the duration of the following: Boot Camp in San Diego; then to Treasure Island ( I assume for transport to Pearl); then what appear to be schools: SERFORPAC ADMIN and SERFORPAC ADMINFLT SCHSTUDENT. Don't know if those are two schools or one for different training. If I had the general duration of all that, I then could get an idea about when my brother was assigned to PC-583.

Thanks in advance. And hopefully I won't bother you any more.

[sigsaye]

OK, Sigsaye. You've been very helpful. And if you don't mind, one last question. Can you estimate the duration of the following: Boot Camp in San Diego; then to Treasure Island ( I assume for transport to Pearl); then what appear to be schools: SERFORPAC ADMIN and SERFORPAC ADMINFLT SCHSTUDENT. Don't know if those are two schools or one for different training. If I had the general duration of all that, I then could get an idea about when my brother was assigned to PC-583.

Thanks in advance. And hopyefully I won't bother you any more.

. That is very difficult t tel. Boot camp during WW2 ran any where from 12 to 3 weeks depending on month and year. I have no way to tell. Same with schools.

 

There is a section here on the forum for tracking people. I have a friend who's uncle was on a PC in the Solomons. Just gave his name and by the end of the day, someone had found his service listings and muster reports and such listing what had happened to him. Give that a try.

[nibs]

Thanks again. Got it!