Blackinton Military Aviator Badge in Unopened Package

[MottTheHoople]

Here is a Military Aviator badge by Blackinton in its original packaging. If I found this badge without the package I would have not thought much about it since it is not hallmarked.

 

What do you guys think? Any idea of the age or has anyone seen one like this before?

 

[juvatwad]

I've never seen an original in person, but based on photos I've seen of them, the details on the one shown here appear rough, and the pin and catch are different.

[5thwingmarty]

I doubt an original, vintage one would be sealed in this type of plastic bag either. I wonder if JoeW in Indiana has the rights to Blackinton along with Luxenberg.

[bschwartz]

Blackinton is still very much in business. Their hallmark is still in safe hands.

[MottTheHoople]

Its definitely a Blackinton badge. It's obviously not an original piece but it appears at least 40 years old based on the package it's in. I have been looking for other Blackinton badges & insignia that use this type of packaging. It looks like Blackinton stopped using this type of packaging in the 60's, maybe early 70's. I am still looking to find the earliest example of this packaging, though. I may have some luck by contacting them.

[pconrad02]

Looks like it might be a "resealed" old bag, weird that they would cut half their name off on purpose. The badge is is modern of course.

[Lee Ragan]

It is not an original. I believe that only 13 were made originally and all are accounted for in museums or collections. Original badges have silver inlays on the signal flags and these later reproductions don't. I have one like this that I've had for over 35 years.

[pfrost]

Its a collector copy, I suspect.

 

There are originals (go here to see some: http://www.ww2wings.com/wings/wwi/us/us.shtm) including a (probably WWI vintage) Blackinton version. I believe it was closer to 20-25 original pilots got this badge, and a few are still unaccounted for--I know I'm always looking . I believe that Blackinton used to show this badge on their catalogs for sale up into the 30's. So it is possible that some of those early made badges exist as well

 

They also sometime appear as "salesman" samples from the 30's and 40's Blackinton insignia boards. Apparently Duncan Campbell had one that was sold a number of years ago when his collection went up for auction. IIRC these were glued to the boards and may not have ever had any findings attached.

 

As I said, this is piece is neither of the two options above and is probably a collector copy

[firefighter]

Plus, weren't the original 10K or 14K GOLD, and marked as such?

[MottTheHoople]

I would not worry too much about the size of the bag. They would cut the bag to fit the badge. Here is an example of a large & miniature badges made by Blackinton. As you can see, they would trim off excess plastic for the smaller insignia.

 

 

As far as being a resealed bag, I would discount that as well. The seal is no different on this Military Aviator badge than their police badges from the 60's. Also, that is pretty elaborate considering how little I paid for it.

 

I guess I am surprised this is one has not documented before. The general consensus here seems to be that Blackinton did not make this Military Aviator badge in the 50's, 60's or 70's and as such, this one must be fake. Is it that later productions should not exist or just that no one has seen one before? I feel like there is a distinct difference between the 2.

[pfrost]

I'm not sure that the consensus is that they didn't make these badges. They clearly didn't make them to be worn by pilots after WW!, but i am sure they would have made them as collectibles for anyone who asked, especially in the modern era.

 

I'm pretty sure you have a Blackinton made badge intended as a collector copy. Think "Franklin Mint" type item and you are probably there.

You see these around. I suspect if you go on eBay you will likely find a few examples.

[Patchcollector]

Rather than brand it a "fake",I think it more appropriate to call it a "collector copy",as Patrick suggested.Other manufacturers have also remade them,the "restrike" Wings from Meyer come to mind.

When I think of the term "fake",I think of something being deliberately made to deceive.

[firefighter]

Reproduction or made for collector. The main thing is that it is NOT a period piece. So more for a filler of a badge that would cost thousands of dollars.It looks like it is nicely made. It's in a BLACKINGTON bag but is it marked by the company?

[Patchcollector]

These could have been made for events,such as Airshows,or for Museums to sell to visitors.Leaving off the hallmark would be a smart move in case someone tried to fool somebody down the road.

[manayunkman]

A period piece would not come in a plastic bag.

 

Plastic bags weren't invented yet.

 

*

[cwnorma]

Duncan Campbell told me that in 1967 (50th Anniversary) the Daedalians commissioned Blackington to strike a limited number for sale to their membership.

 

If you find one of these, from the front they are crisply die-struck and identical to Cliff's Blackington originals on Bob's website. On the rear these Daedalian badges are pen-engraved on the back "copy" and AAHF (serial number).

 

According to Duncan, it was during this run that the die for the top bar broke. To finish the last part of the order, Blackinton had to cast the top bar, and from then on all reproductions were made using a casting for the top bar.

 

As far as I know, Blackington still has the die for the badge. I don't know if it is "retired" or if they would still strike copies upon request. Either way, the die for the top bar is broken and cannot be used.

 

So assuming what Duncan told me is correct, and I have no reason to doubt the man--he wasn't known for spinning yarns, Blackington re-strike badges made before 1967 should have a die struck top bar and any made after would have a cast top bar.

 

Chris

[B-17Guy]

Blackinton did make a M1913 Military Aviator badge.

 

The one Cliff shows on Bob's web-site is the perfect example and to be honest,

nobody knows more about the M1913 Military Aviator badges then he.

 

I have one in my collection that was probably struck in the 1930's, as it is marked with the classic "Sterling by Blackinton" back mark.

It is the only one that I personally have seen like it, although there must be a few more somewhere in collections.

 

Nobody really knows how many badges Blackinton produced back in the day and why, except to possibly be a replacement badge for those that were

previously awarded the rating.

 

The badge in this post is, as has been discussed, was produced sometime in far more recent times and in my opinion has little collectors value other then being a place holder.

 

John

[cwnorma]

Not all restrikes are made for collectors.

 

Blackinton was the only contractor for the Military Aviator badge available for sale at the PX/Clothing Sales stores. Clothing sales stores also service retirees.

 

I purchased an original WW1 victory medal off the shelves at the Military Clothing Sales store at Fort Meade in 1994!

 

The expensive gold & silver badges issued by the war department were probably reserved for dress occasions and the sterling Blackington badges available at the PX would have likely been worn for all "normal" service use. These early Blackington PX badges are at least as "official" as any other insignia purchased and worn by an authorized Airman.

 

Blackington Military Aviator badges were likely available for purchase at PX Clothing Sales Stores at major Air Bases through the end of WW2 and diminishingly thereafter. General Arnold wore his until his death in 1950 and I don't doubt that the base nearest the AF's only 5-star general (Camp Cooke / Cooke Field / Cooke AFB / Vandenberg AFB), as well as bases he was likely to visit (Kelly/Lackland, Bolling, Pentagon, etc), continued to keep the badge (along with 5-star rank and shoulder-boards) on their shelves--just in case the general needed any.

 

As to the badge at the top of this thread. It is likely that a PX Clothing Sales Store had a number of elderly retirees that lived nearby and kept some of the badges in stock.

 

It would be interesting to write to Blackinton and see if they have records on the last time they fulfilled an order for the Department of Defense for the Military Aviator badge.

[cwnorma]

The badge in this post is, as has been discussed, was produced sometime in far more recent times and in my opinion has little collectors value other then being a place holder.

 

John,

 

While I certainly agree that it has nowhere near the monetary value of an early original, I do think it is quite interesting--as possibly the latest version, by the last official manufacturer, of a historic badge.

 

Perhaps less of a placeholder and more of a footnote?

 

Chris

[firefighter]

I doubt very much that these were in a Clothing Sales store. As far as these being made by BLACKINTON, I doubt that they were. BLACKINTON is a very prestigious manufacture and I would think they would have hallmarked this badge. I'm thinking it was repacked.

[MottTheHoople]

I found 2 more examples of bagged Blackinton Military Aviator badges. The first one is like mine with respect to the appearance of the badge as well as the same style bag but has the silver highlights The second one is in newer Blackinton packaging (from the last 15 years) and is from a different die.

[pfrost]

This is the Blackinton circa-1930-40's (IMHO) 1913 Military Aviator badge that was sold out of Duncan Campbell's collection in 2009 or so. It is probably a salesman sample that was taken off a board with other Blackinton-made insignia (see Cliff's post below).

 

I don't have an image of the front of this particular badge.

 

There are also various cast "museum copies" offered by person we all know.

 

 

Here is some more information from an old thread by Cliff about the early 1913 badge made by Blackinton (a silver one in this case).

 

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/85680-1913-style-military-aviator-badge-in-sterling-by-v-h-blackinton/

[cwnorma]

BLACKINTON is a very prestigious manufacture...

 

What do you mean by "very prestigious?"

 

As far as I know, Blackington (then) was a manufacturer of insignia and society goods--hardly more prestigious than M.C. Lilley, Ames, or a dozen or so other competitors. Today they are almost exclusively manufacturers of law enforcement insignia. They are one of the very few early manufacturers of insignia that is still in business--so they do indeed have a long legacy. Either way, they are certainly not in a category with Tiffany, Cartier, or even BB&B--many of the items Blackington sells today retail for less than $1.00.

 

As for BB&B, even during their heyday, they too were wholesale jobbers and had low-end lines as well as high; so I'm not sure "prestigious" particularly applies--even to them.

 

After WW2, there were many, many more competitors in the military insignia game. Blackington probably found it harder to compete in the military insignia business and turned to law enforcement.

 

In the era we are talking about, the 1950s to (possibly as late as) the 1960s, the 1913 military aviators would have been in their 70s. Not young to be sure, but certainly no so old as to not still be around. No doubt they were invited to Dining Ins and other official functions. If they were retirees, they would have been authorized to shop at Clothing Sales. They were probably also considered VIPs so it is likely the PX made sure to have some badges in stock.

 

Hallmarks? Hallmarks are a spotty thing at best. They tend to be more prevalent on items made of precious and semi-precious metals. Because hallmarks require a hand strike, they add time and therefore expense to a product. Would Blackington bother to hallmark an item not in precious metal? Cliff Presley's sterling badge, on Bob Shwartz' site, has no hallmark and it is clearly a Blackington badge.

 

To be explicit, it is possible that this is an elaborate fantasy piece. But I also find it plausible that, if it is a real, die-struck badge, it represents the very tail end of Blackington's official manufacture of this badge. Please don't misconstrue, I am not proposing that this is a rare 1920s badge that somehow found its way into a 1950s/1960s bag...

 

The only way to gain any real surety would be to compare the badge with known Blacktington strikes. The following questions might be instructive:

 

1) Is the badge die struck or cast?

2) Is the top bar die struck or cast (pre- or post-1967)?

3) When compared side-by-side with a known Blackington-struck badge how does it compare in terms of dimensions and details?

 

Chris

[pfrost]

I like your take on "prestigious" Chris. Sometimes we (collectors) are like tween-fan girls when it comes to our favorite badge-making company. You can go to Blackinton.com and see the quality of their wares. Not terribly wonderful, in my opinion.

 

Yet, of all the veterans I have talked to, not a one had any interest in who had made their badge, much less that there were different variations. They just sort of wore what they wore. One guy told me that after what he went through during the war, he couldn't wait to take off his uniform and never think of it again. He did say he was excited to get his uniform, but he was more worried about what was facing him overseas then where his insignia were coming from.

 

On another note, the interest in wing badge collecting goes back some time. Like patches, I'm sure people were collecting them well back into the 40's, and one would expect that if these 1913 badges were as easy to get as visiting a PX, then more would be out there in collections. No?

[cwnorma]

Tween fangirls! That is so awesome--and sooooo true!

 

Prior to the 1950s, the PX was a small shop where customers would have to ask a clerk for the item they wanted. They were not commonly accessible to the general public.

 

Open bases were a product of the post-Vietnam war era when the military was trying to burnish its "part of the community" image.

 

So when I say available, I don't mean that they had a half dozen of them in a regular spot on a self-service rack. More that if Col Gorrell came in and asked for one, the clerk would have one for him in a drawer.