BOLO Posted September 28, 2008 Share #1 Posted September 28, 2008 http://www.geocities.com/ww2usmilitaria/m1910shovel.html the local thrift store has an old short t- handle shovel that looks identicle to this, but I dont see any "US" stamp in the metal or handle? but it does look rusty and weathered, maybe the markings are worn off? he wants $20 or best offer for it did they make foreign copies of this shovel? it looks like it's from WWI era it looks like it might be the first model of the M1910 t - handle is $20 worth it for a well used weathered t-handle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6th marine Posted September 28, 2008 Share #2 Posted September 28, 2008 I would say $20.00 is a good deal. Even without markings it could very well still be a Early WW1 orearly WW2 shovel. I'd get it before someone else does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GIKyle Posted September 30, 2008 Share #3 Posted September 30, 2008 Looks to me that there is a US marking on the blade. Definitely get it for $20! Kyle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOLO Posted September 30, 2008 Author Share #4 Posted September 30, 2008 Looks to me that there is a US marking on the blade. Definitely get it for $20! Kyle thats not the same one I saw in the store, but it's very close, I tried going back to look at it but his store was closed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
earlymb Posted October 1, 2008 Share #5 Posted October 1, 2008 That's my website and one of my shovels, and it is marked on both metal and wooden handle. It is a regular lenght one though. It wouldn't be uncommon for the marks to wear off. Check the sides of the small T-piece for a 'flaming bomb' stamp, which some of these shovels had. No, you can't have this one for 20.00 Greetz David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOLO Posted October 13, 2008 Author Share #6 Posted October 13, 2008 I finally returned to the antique shop and looked at the unusual T-handle / e tool and made a drawing of the shovel to illustrate how it differs from the standard M1910 shovel the shovel head does not wrap around the wood , it is a simple stamped blade with crude pins going through the wood as shown in my drawing. this piece looks very old, could this be the rare first model M1910 t - handle? or could it be a commercial copy used by boy scouts or something? it's definitely a vintage piece Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOLO Posted October 13, 2008 Author Share #7 Posted October 13, 2008 here are photos of the very rare first model M1910 shovel notice the metal is wrapped around the handle on the shovel head with one rivet? the one I saw was not wrapped around the wood like this one, it was only on one side like my drawing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captainofthe7th Posted October 13, 2008 Share #8 Posted October 13, 2008 There are plenty of topics covering these "rare 1st model" shovels, and most lead to the point that surplus dealers took left over handles and stuck cheap spades on them. No one knows for sure if any are real or if they're all a surplus job Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOLO Posted October 13, 2008 Author Share #9 Posted October 13, 2008 There are plenty of topics covering these "rare 1st model" shovels, and most lead to the point that surplus dealers took left over handles and stuck cheap spades on them. No one knows for sure if any are real or if they're all a surplus job Rob thanks, I think that is exactly what it is, a cheap spade added to a surplus handle, because the pins looked too crude / cheap to be military , the pins almost looked like old nails hammered down to make the pins Im glad I didnt buy it yet, it's most likely one of those cheap surplus jobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captainofthe7th Posted October 13, 2008 Share #10 Posted October 13, 2008 If the cover is nice, it might be worth $20 Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOLO Posted October 13, 2008 Author Share #11 Posted October 13, 2008 If the cover is nice, it might be worth $20 Rob it didnt have a cover, I think it was probably sold by a surplus store as a campers shovel or used boy scouts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgtdorango Posted October 13, 2008 Share #12 Posted October 13, 2008 I would take the chance and buy it for $20 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOLO Posted October 14, 2008 Author Share #13 Posted October 14, 2008 http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ind...shovel&st=0 I found the old topic about WW1 M1910 shovels this looks like the t - handle I saw in the store, the lower one without a reinforcement piece, just two pins holding it on the shovel head, looks like it wouldnt last long before breaking the handle, no markings this is the one, some people say it is a 1950's 60's surplus store shovel made from surplus M1910 handles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOLO Posted October 14, 2008 Author Share #14 Posted October 14, 2008 the one on the far right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6th marine Posted October 15, 2008 Share #15 Posted October 15, 2008 the one on the far right For $20.00 I'd get it . It still looks like a nice shovel and could still look good in your collection. Anyway till you find out for sure what it really is. Heck you can always use it for trading material or a display. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayg Posted October 15, 2008 Share #16 Posted October 15, 2008 The jury is still out as to whether the one sided support shovel is a legit pre 1910 model or a later put together. I'm kind of leaning toward it being original, at least the ones I've looked at, as I believe it was the first entrenching tool designed to be carried by an individual soldier as part of his equipment and with no prior history in it's use, one side support may have seemed sufficiant. The 1910 issue brought improvements to much of the pre 1900 equipment. To name a few, canteens, cartridge belts, first aid pouches etc. and possibly a 2nd support may have been added to the entrenching tool for more support. Also this model is not that scarce and seems to be about as common as some of the other pre 1910 equipment still in existance. I guess I just have difficulity believing that some dealer made as many as are found. I may be wrong but just my thoughts, Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOLO Posted October 15, 2008 Author Share #17 Posted October 15, 2008 For $20.00 I'd get it . It still looks like a nice shovel and could still look good in your collection. Anyway till you find out for sure what it really is. Heck you can always use it for trading material or a display. I think I would rather spend a little more and get a standard M1910 with the proper reinforcements, something with US markings so I know it's the real deal. I saw another WWI t-handle at an antique store with US markings and reinforced on both sides for around $35 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOLO Posted December 18, 2008 Author Share #18 Posted December 18, 2008 1906 Entrenching Tool. The first pattern of the short T-handle entrenching tool, adopted around 1906, had no reinforcing metal on the back side of the handle. Very few exist because this weakness led to frequent breakage. WPG has recreated this rare shovel for the benefit of collectors interested in pre-WWI equipment. $32 What Price What Glory sells a repro of this shovel as the rare model 1906 t handle for $32 http://www.whatpriceglory.com/us1902to38.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig_pickrall Posted December 18, 2008 Share #19 Posted December 18, 2008 This is out of my area of collecting and I do not know much about this gear. With that said I thought I would show a US ENGR DEPT shovel that dates to the late 1800's or early 1900's. I bought this shovel a few years back knowing I would resell it. This shovel has back strap support / reinforcement. Shovels were not new in 1910. They had been around forever and companies like AMES had to know that back support was necessary. This shovel is approximately 32" long and was compact for it's day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LtRGFRANK Posted December 18, 2008 Share #20 Posted December 18, 2008 the one on the far right These are my shovels. The far Rt one is the 1st pattern unreinforced model which broke easy. The Left one is where they wrapped the metal around the handle to add strength. The middle one is the reinforcement spotwelded on to the exsisting 1st pattern to sholve the problem. The later ones the reinforcement was welded on. I'll grab one of those and add a picture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LtRGFRANK Posted December 18, 2008 Share #21 Posted December 18, 2008 This is the last pattern with the welded rear inforcement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawkdriver Posted December 18, 2008 Share #22 Posted December 18, 2008 BOLO, go take a camera to the store and take a picture of it. For $20, I'd buy it and if you figure out it is a copy, sling it off on eBay with a buy it now price of what you paid for it and someone will take it. I just sold my repro bayonet that I bought thinking it was real, labeled it as repro, it didn't last a day and the guy was very happy. I would even send you $20 to get it for me if you don't want it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOLO Posted December 18, 2008 Author Share #23 Posted December 18, 2008 BOLO, go take a camera to the store and take a picture of it. For $20, I'd buy it and if you figure out it is a copy, sling it off on eBay with a buy it now price of what you paid for it and someone will take it. I just sold my repro bayonet that I bought thinking it was real, labeled it as repro, it didn't last a day and the guy was very happy. I would even send you $20 to get it for me if you don't want it. I'll try and go back to the store and see if he still has it, he said he's had it for years it's one of those hole in the wall junk stores thats never open when you drive by, but if the weathers nice he's usually there on the weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scmcgeorge Posted December 18, 2008 Share #24 Posted December 18, 2008 This is out of my area of collecting and I do not know much about this gear. With that said I thought I would show a US ENGR DEPT shovel that dates to the late 1800's or early 1900's. I bought this shovel a few years back knowing I would resell it. This shovel has back strap support / reinforcement. Shovels were not new in 1910. They had been around forever and companies like AMES had to know that back support was necessary. This shovel is approximately 32" long and was compact for it's day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scmcgeorge Posted December 18, 2008 Share #25 Posted December 18, 2008 Craig I have specs and more info on the Ames iron T-handle you have illustrated and photographed. Will post tommorow, Steve McG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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