Help with 1st Cav Subdued Patch

[M60 Driver]

Need help to ID the origin of the 1st Cav patch on the right. It is slightly smaller then the more generic patch on the left, the black stripe is narrower, and the color seems to have a tad more brown (?) perhaps. I am not a patch collector so need help with specifics.

 

 

And as always, thanks in advance.

[M60 Driver]

Here is the back side

[phillock]

Hi there

 

They both look standard US made merrow edge subdued SSI form the late 60's-mid 80's.

 

You will find slight variation in colour and size. Colour is due to the cable shade the company used , laundered could have an effect and you will get wider and narrow versions.

 

Phill

[tredhed2]

What Phil said.

[gwb123]

I agree.

 

I seem to recall seeing a bin at a Ft. Hood surplus shop full of worn and removed 1st CAV patches. Of course I was searching for either first issue subdued on twill patches or theater made ones. But they were all post Vietnam, and due to washing, pressing, starching, they were every shade of OD you could imagine. The more they were worn, the more they stretched or shrank, depending on care.

[patches]

Former 1st Cav Div Here May 1980-May 1981.

 

As mentioned by phillock and gwb, various shades OD threads were used, and if sewn to fatigues, fading and shrinking due to exposure to the elements and sun, and repeated washing of shirt and or field jacket, happens less so on Class A coats, though up till 1965, the Army wore patches on the long sleeve Khaki shirt, so the washing fading thing was happening there too.

 

My own experience, at towards end of Inf AIT at Ft Benning late March 1980, we were allowed by the Drill Sergeants under there accompaniment, to go to the post Clothing Sales Store to by stuff, like additional Marksmanship Qualification Bars were applicable, more collar discs etc, we were also allowed to buy one full color shoulder patch in color and one in subdued for the unit we knew we were going to. One for one of the Army Green Class A coats, light weight type(We had two Class As, one heavy weight, one light weight) and one for one fatique shirt (We had three sets, plus a field jacket). Later We took these to the local PX Annex (Sand Hill) to be sewn on, also we were allowed one set of Embroidered U.S. ARMY and Name tapes to be made if we wanted as well to be also sewn on with the patch.

 

Fast forward at bit to mid May, I report in to the 1st Cavalry Division Replacement Detachment, got there at night with no baggage (Lost at Dallas Fort Worth Airport was in Class As though and my stuff came in the next evening ) One of the very first things that was adressed at the first formation was the buying and sewing on of the division patch, we were instructed to go to the nearby PX to buy patches for all our stuff, had to be machine sewn and not sewn on by hand, had to be done by next days inspection, I caught a break because I had no stuff , had to do it next day the second one at the Replacement Det.

 

Point of the story

 

After having done all this, and after I settled in in my permanent party unit, C Co 2/12 Cav, I noticed in looking at my various fatique items, that the Cav patch I had done at Benning was distinctly Greener in shade, then the ones I just had sewn on while at the Depot, these were all Browner in shade, and all these patches were new and were not as yet exposed to the Field and or Garrison use, nor washed, that would all change of course.

 

July 1980. The Fading begins, and has already started in the harsh Texas Sun, LOL. This is one of the Brown OD ones, I gather batches differed from Post to Post and not just 1st Cav patches but any unit one chooses to look at, hell they may have differed from PX to PX Annex's on the same post right.

[phillock]

Hi Patches

 

For the benefit of myself, as I find this interesting , you say you were allowed to buy 1 coloured SSI in yet you had 2 x class A's, 1 x fatigue shirt (3 x sets plus Jacket) etc.. Don't they just issue free of charge one for each Class A, khaki and fatigue shirts? Why do you have to purchase said SSI/Insignia?

 

Also when I first collected subdued SSI back in the late 80's I did find that 1st Cav and 82nd went from green,brown to olive drab colour, obviously due to laundering and weather beaten,and at one stage I thought that the quality control of the cables was overlooked!!

 

I know it sounds mundane but I hope others chime in on when and how they received their SSI/Insignia from WWII to now.

 

cheers

 

Phill

[patches]

Hi Patches

 

For the benefit of myself, as I find this interesting , you say you were allowed to buy 1 coloured SSI in yet you had 2 x class A's, 1 x fatigue shirt (3 x sets plus Jacket) etc.. Don't they just issue free of charge one for each Class A, khaki and fatigue shirts? Why do you have to purchase said SSI/Insignia?

 

Also when I first collected subdued SSI back in the late 80's I did find that 1st Cav and 82nd went from green,brown to olive drab colour, obviously due to laundering and weather beaten,and at one stage I thought that the quality control of the cables was overlooked!!

 

I know it sounds mundane but I hope others chime in on when and how they received their SSI/Insignia from WWII to now.

 

cheers

 

Phill

In the modern era, going back I gather into the 1950s, though it might slightly vary from time period to time period and unit to unit, Enlistedmen buy their shoulder patches, rank insignia, ribbons where applicable, both the rank insignia, both Cloth color, and Subdued metal or Cloth sewn on.

 

The only insignia I ever got issued was free was Name Tapes, when I got issued my very first fatiques, these being the Stamped on Ribbed Nylon type (one has to buy the embroidered ones at a later date if they want those types), two U.S. collar discs when I was issued the Class A/Khaki uniforms, one Marksmanship Badge with RIFLE Bar, after the first rifle range qualification test. Later nearing the end of AIT in a Company Formation, going in front of the Company's Senior Drill Sergeant one by one, the Infantry Rope in clear plastic bag, two Infantry Crossed Rifle collar discs on plastic sealed card, Blue Backing for discs, sealed on card,

 

Interestingly enough Supply Rooms do have this stuff, probably in limited numbers, but my experience is no one really goes there looking for this stuff, and as I found out in Alaska, stuff issued from supply has to be returned when leaving unit permanently, as witnessed in the 4/9th Inf with MANCHU Buckles, guys who got them from supply had to turn them in, I had one when I got up there, got it from a former member then in my Platoon in the Cav, he gave it to me when he found out I was going to Ft wainwright, the home of the 4/9th, so I got to keep it when I got discharged.

 

With subdued patches from the late 60s on, OD shades seen I'm sure are merely manufacturer variations, just like the old WWII OD border types right, or ones that had OD borders as a matter of course, one sees Greener shades, Tanner shades, Browner shades etc of OD.

[phillock]

Thanks for the input Patches.

 

Interesting, I always thought soldiers would of been issued with the insignia especially SSI once assigned to a unit separate Inorganic Bn and above.

 

cheers

 

Phill

[patches]

Thanks for the input Patches.

 

Interesting, I always thought soldiers would of been issued with the insignia especially SSI once assigned to a unit separate Inorganic Bn and above.

 

cheers

 

Phil

There of course exceptions see this topic HERE, but their experiences are not mine, I had to buy them all. It's been like that I imagine since the 50s probably, even in WWII stateside patches could be bought extra, as in those PX tagged patches from WWII that someone one posted a while ago, forgot the post, Camp Ripley Minnesota???

[patches]

Found this in the old foto pile tonight and scanned it.

 

That Green Shade OD Cav patch I was talking about, the one I got a Fort Benning near the end of AIT, foto taken in the 2/12 Cav's Barracks Area oh say late April 1981.