WWI Trench club

[Newdog98]

Hello I am very new to using this forum and tried to find the most appropriate place to ask this question so im sorry if their is another category. I have found a ww1 trench club that I have no idea if it is real or fake. It comes from a reputable seller If you have any info or links or even another category pleas let me know!

[Allan H.]

What you have here is a vintage "billy club" which could have been made for and used by any number of people/ entities. Many police forces carried these in the 19th and well into the 20th centuries. Billy clubs were also popular with truck drivers and others who might find themselves in unfamiliar territory and needing an edge. The difficulty you will have with the piece in question is determining that this was used in the trenches by an American soldier or marine. It is going to be one of those pieces that, without iron-clad provinance, will only be what is claimed to be if the buyer is willing to buy the story.

 

The club has a bit of age, and the tape repair looks like old tape, but the rest of the evaluation will be up to the buyer.

 

My two cents,

Allan

[doyler]

Agree with Alan

 

The friction tape looks old but not WW1 old to me.

 

The Trench clubs I have seen and handled were also longer.

 

Dont mean anything as Im sure there were as many variations as there were immaginations who made them.

[world war I nerd]

Newdog98,

 

WW I trench clubs, whether ordnance made and or improvised in the field are, in my opinion, extremely difficult to authenticate unless they are an exact match for a known specimen.

 

What you posted could be the remains of a broken trench club (or nightstick) that someone tried to repair by means of friction tape either 100 years ago or 10 years ago. It could also be a legitimate WW I trench or billy club that was intentionally cut down, then weighted with lead, and reinforced with Signal Corps friction tape for use in the close confines of a narrow trench or underground tunnel.

 

In other words, its just about impossible to authenticate with any degree of certainty if the trench club posted is legitimate or phony.

 

Likewise, there is no way to know whether your club was carried by an MP from the WW I era (or beyond) who decided he needed the extra persuasion power of a customized, weighted billy club ... or if that club was in fact, wielded by a WW I trench raider.

 

I'm in no way saying your club is bad, and I'm in no way saying it is good either. However, aside from the new leather thong, it certainly looks as if its been around since 1918, and would therefore look okay in a WW I display ... But that's just my opinion. Other opinions may differ.

 

Whether you're a buyer, a seller or a collector, without any actual evidence proving that the weapon is an authentic WW I trench club, its a judgement call that must be made by each individual.

 

Here are some other WW I era trench clubs with turned wooden handles for comparison. By the way, your club is at the far right. The far left image is courtesy of Bay State Militaria.com, while the others were culled from various sources on the internet.

 

Was it cut down from a similar trench club? Maybe ... Maybe not.

[world war I nerd]

By the way, I agree with Allen H and doyler posted.

 

Here are some more alleged WW I era trench clubs, three of which, if they are legitimate, I'm certain were field made. Once again your club is on the far right.

 

Left hand photo courtesy of Advance Guard Militaria.com - center photo courtesy of Bay State Militaria.com - center right photo courtesy of Great War Militaria

[world war I nerd]

Here, your club is compared to three alleged WW I era Billy Clubs / Night Sticks. Again your club is at the far right.

 

The three center images are all courtesy of Bay State Militaria.com

[world war I nerd]

For what it's worth a limited edition book titled "At Arm's Length", about WW I trench clubs was written by David F, Machnicki. For more information contact the author at:

 

[email protected]

 

PS, over the years I've seen at least a dozen or more photographs of U.S. Army MPs carrying billy clubs, dating from approximately 1916 to 1919, and no two clubs looked alike ... Therefore, like the WW I trench club, there must not have been much uniformity in regard to the billy clubs/ night sticks carried by MPs from that period.

[Newdog98]

Newdog98,

 

WW I trench clubs, whether ordnance made and or improvised in the field are, in my opinion, extremely difficult to authenticate unless they are an exact match for a known specimen.

 

What you posted could be the remains of a broken trench club (or nightstick) that someone tried to repair by means of friction tape either 100 years ago or 10 years ago. It could also be a legitimate WW I trench or billy club that was intentionally cut down, then weighted with lead, and reinforced with Signal Corps friction tape for use in the close confines of a narrow trench or underground tunnel.

 

In other words, its just about impossible to authenticate with any degree of certainty if the trench club posted is legitimate or phony.

 

Likewise, there is no way to know whether your club was carried by an MP from the WW I era (or beyond) who decided he needed the extra persuasion power of a customized, weighted billy club ... or if that club was in fact, wielded by a WW I trench raider.

 

I'm in no way saying your club is bad, and I'm in no way saying it is good either. However, aside from the new leather thong, it certainly looks as if its been around since 1918, and would therefore look okay in a WW I display ... But that's just my opinion. Other opinions may differ.

 

Whether you're a buyer, a seller or a collector, without any actual evidence proving that the weapon is an authentic WW I trench club, its a judgement call that must be made by each individual.

 

Here are some other WW I era trench clubs with turned wooden handles for comparison. By the way, your club is at the far right. The far left image is courtesy of Bay State Militaria.com, while the others were culled from various sources on the internet.

 

Was it cut down from a similar trench club? Maybe ... Maybe not.

 

Id certainly like to think it was! My thing is looking at the MP billy clubs it does look like it but then again it also like you said looks like a cut down trench club or something based off the handle. It definitely would look good for a display which is what i was partially going to use it for. Would you say its okay for 95 dollars?

 

[Newdog98]

What you have here is a vintage "billy club" which could have been made for and used by any number of people/ entities. Many police forces carried these in the 19th and well into the 20th centuries. Billy clubs were also popular with truck drivers and others who might find themselves in unfamiliar territory and needing an edge. The difficulty you will have with the piece in question is determining that this was used in the trenches by an American soldier or marine. It is going to be one of those pieces that, without iron-clad provinance, will only be what is claimed to be if the buyer is willing to buy the story.

 

The club has a bit of age, and the tape repair looks like old tape, but the rest of the evaluation will be up to the buyer.

 

My two cents,

Allan

Thanks for the response! I will definitely take this into consideration!

[Newdog98]

Agree with Alan

 

The friction tape looks old but not WW1 old to me.

 

The Trench clubs I have seen and handled were also longer.

 

Dont mean anything as Im sure there were as many variations as there were immaginations who made them.

Thanks for your imput! That is the problem with these things! You can never really know unless you have physical proof that it was real

[world war I nerd]

Whether the club in question is worth $95 or not is entirely up to you.

 

$95, relatively speaking, is cheap for a trench club, and probably about the right price for this one, considering it's neither a trench club, nor is it a night stick. In my opinion it would look okay in a display, as there were probably hundreds, possibly thousands of designs of field made trench clubs made during the Great War. Others may not like your club, but no one can definitively say it's not a WW I era trench club, because nobody really knows.

 

Worse case scenario is that you won't be able to sell it later for what you paid for it.

 

Best case scenario, you may be able to sell it for what you paid for it or possibly more, as the asking price is relative to what the buyer is willing to pay for it.

[world war I nerd]

Newdog98,

 

You might consider, respectfully telling the seller that your research indicates that its neither a trench or billy club and make him a lower offer that you're more comfortable with.

 

Then it's up to him to make a decision based on what he paid for the thing and how he values it.

[MAW]

Trench clubs fall into the same category as WW2 painted helmets. There are many more fakes than real ones.

 

In fact....I have never seen a documented trench club... ie. found in a footlocker, and unquestionably real. I'm sure they are hypothetically out there; but they are scarce.

 

I agree that this is a billy club....and the friction tape resembles the WW2 era tape. I would suspect it might date to that era.

 

It has a decent amount of "character" to it.

[cwnorma]

Trench clubs fall into the same category as WW2 painted helmets. There are many more fakes than real ones.

 

In fact....I have never seen a documented trench club... ie. found in a footlocker, and unquestionably real. I'm sure they are hypothetically out there; but they are scarce.

 

A friend in the Northeast has one he pulled out of an old Baltimore estate. It still has bits of hair and dried "meat" on it...

 

Only "real" one I have ever seen.

[Newdog98]

Newdog98,

 

You might consider, respectfully telling the seller that your research indicates that its neither a trench or billy club and make him a lower offer that you're more comfortable with.

 

Then it's up to him to make a decision based on what he paid for the thing and how he values it.

I don't think he's the type of guy to like that so I'll just pass. However I will post another thing here shorty(tomorrow or tonight) about an austrian trench knife and I'd like your opinion!

[Newdog98]

Trench clubs fall into the same category as WW2 painted helmets. There are many more fakes than real ones.

!

 

In fact....I have never seen a documented trench club... ie. found in a footlocker, and unquestionably real. I'm sure they are hypothetically out there; but they are scarce.

 

I agree that this is a billy club....and the friction tape resembles the WW2 era tape. I would suspect it might date to that era.

 

It has a decent amount of "character" to it.

After spending a day of researching and comparing id agree. Thanks for your imput

[doyler]

Newdog98,

 

You might consider, respectfully telling the seller that your research indicates that its neither a trench or billy club and make him a lower offer that you're more comfortable with.

 

Then it's up to him to make a decision based on what he paid for the thing and how he values it.

 

 

Lots of solid advice here.

 

One other thing to consider is truckers would carry a "tire thumper" to test tires and use as a weapon if needed.Known several who carried them as wel as a gun but certain places itwas easir to wal arund the truckstop with a tire thumper han apistol or shotgun...

[groserm]

I have seen similar billy clubs made in the late 1800's or early 1900's most say they are police billy clubs. I was researching WW1 clubs after I had read some articles how violent the hand to hand combat was. Like stated earlier some were made in the field and many others were made behind the lines by machinists or ordancemen. I have some pictures on my other computer I will post tomorrow. One shows the field gear of a British soldier showing the club he was issued before he was deployed to France. He was killed in action and his gear was returned to his family.

 

Like everyone said it is really hard to prove it was created during that period. I also read that after the war there were people making WW1 clubs to sell to the public. I have two one supposedly was made by the Canadians for their troops and another that is hand made with a steel spring and steel ball on the end. Can't really say they were actually made during WW1. I read most clubs were around 14 inches due to the limited dimensions of the trenches.

[groserm]

Here are some clubs and other items supposedly from WW1.

 

Rick

[groserm]

One more showing the equipment from a fallen British soldier. The club that was issued to him as standard equipment is in the left.

 

Rick

[groserm]

This is a good picture with the soldier in the back ground waving his club,

 

Rick

[Newdog98]

This is a good picture with the soldier in the back ground waving his club,

 

Rick

 

Thanks for these photos i will use these for future refrence if i find another possible trench club! I would love to fin d one of the ones with a ball on the end of a medal bar like thing....maybe someday