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M1A1, opinions, observations welcome.


Sledge
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I posted this to a couple of forums so far and afaik any questions have been addressed. Sharing it here for more input.

 

How I got it: A good friend of my wife is moving to California and she told me they can't take her husband's carbine with them. They offered to sell me the gun if I took care of it and cherished it like her husband did. (He has alzheimer's and also had a stroke.) I have never owned a vintage gun so I didn't have any idea what was sitting on the table in front of me other than it was a folding wire stock carbine. I wrote them a check for the asking price without negotiating since they are good people and needed the cash for the move.

 

When I got the gun home I researched a bit and realized it was an M1A1 Paratrooper and original examples are valuable historical items. In the last couple weeks I have learned a treasure trove of facts about it. Particularly interested in how they are faked, copied, built from parts, ordinance refurbed, etc. I fully expected to have a bunch of replaced/upgraded parts but was ok with that, the price was very low. (Outrageously too low but I didn't know that.) As I disassembled it I saw more and more evidence it was original and the history of the gun lends a bit of credence.

 

History: The wife and daughter told me the owner got it from his brother around 1955 and his brother got it in the mid 1940's. Brother's uncle was a doctor during WWII, not a paratrooper. They are asking other relatives for more info. He never shot it and kept it in a closet for decades only taking out to oil a bit externally. Dusty inside but good bore, old yellow grease inside on the spring had not been touched in a long time, wood is pretty dry. No corrosion except for a bit on the sling buckle. It was stored in a gun safe. Only one family owned it since mid 1940's afaik. All the ammo was marked LC4 meaning 1944 USGI. I have been told the 30rnd mags are not period. Still digging for more info.

 

Grab a cold and get comfortable there are a lot of pics.

 

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After all the input and research I realized I may have an original first production Inland M1A1. I felt so guilty about what I paid I went back over and forked over more cash to the family. I would not have been able to sleep had I not done that. Still fees like I stole it.

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W-I on the magazine catch is Inland not Winchester. I have an original regular Inland very much like yours, #366216. In the family since April, 1944. You have a very nice M1A1. The left side of your stock has been rubbed down a great deal, sharp edges look smooth and rounded. The previous owner took good care of that Carbine.

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W-I on the magazine catch is Inland not Winchester. I have an original regular Inland very much like yours, #366216. In the family since April, 1944. You have a very nice M1A1. The left side of your stock has been rubbed down a great deal, sharp edges look smooth and rounded. The previous owner took good care of that Carbine.

Didn't see the "- I". It is an Inland catch. Very nice and apparently original M1A1, great find!

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Thanks for the input everyone.

 

W-I on the magazine catch is Inland not Winchester. I have an original regular Inland very much like yours, #366216. In the family since April, 1944. You have a very nice M1A1. The left side of your stock has been rubbed down a great deal, sharp edges look smooth and rounded. The previous owner took good care of that Carbine.

 

I'm still digging for info on it. Like yours it was owned by one family from the mid 40's. Now I have been bitten by the history bug and really want to find out who carried it if possible.

 

While taking it apart one of the confirmations I was looking for was the short screw that goes through the recoil plate into the top of the grip. Found it. I can see why it was replaced with a longer one for the second run carbines. Or did that happen at the ord rebuild? Anyway when I was taking out the screw a thin sliver of wood fell out. Looks like the grip had loosened at some point and someone had inserted a shim for the screw to take hold on. Plain to see that the screw wasn't long enough to have a secure enough hold. I'll bet a lot of them cracked or got stripped out and then swapped out in the field.

 

I have a spare stock to shoot with but I have a desire to shoot it as original, at least a few rounds. When I got it the stock/grip connection was not that tight and I would not even consider shooting it loosey goosey like that. I used a set of small shims in the grip in place of the old brittle one and now it is a very tight fit with no loose play at all anywhere.

 

Advice on shooting it all original?

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Dirt Detective

These markings on the wood is what I like to see...great pick up. Does the trigger housing pin have a spring in it?

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These markings on the wood is what I like to see...great pick up. Does the trigger housing pin have a spring in it?

 

Is that the pin that almost falls out on its own at the front of the housing? It's back in the stock stored so I'll check in a bit but as I recall it was a bare metal pin.

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(Image from uscarbinecal30.com)

 

Hey lambo35 yours was made only 7k units after mine. Very close production date.

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Really nice example.

 

Finding out who carried it will not be easy. Unless the soldier himself recorded the number someplace and that document still exists and is "findable", then you're probably out of luck. This was the case with the "Batte" M1A1 for instance; the officer that carried it effectively documented it and brought it home, too. Interestingly, that one was made within 3K serials of mine, but barring a miracle I'll never prove mine was an original M1A1, it will forever be a 'put-together'.

 

If any US military unit kept records of who was issued what s/n rifle, those records appear to have been discarded long long ago. It seems it was a case of "where's your rifle soldier?" Not "where's your rifle serial 3138689, soldier? This one is 3145768!". Many people have tried to find out this type of info, especially and specifically re: M1A1s since that can prove provenance, but so far, these lists have not been turned up.

 

In the case of M1 rifles, a son did indeed reunite his father with the M1 he carried, this was about seven or eight years ago. The key was: the father remembered the serial number. No documents aided the search.

 

But you've been pretty lucky so far; hopefully you can find the name of a soldier that carried it.

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The family is still hoping their Dad will get enough of his memory back to tell them something more about it. Time will tell.

 

Still wondering if it would be ok to shoot it with the original stock mounted. A bit nervous even to shoot it with the spare stock. There should be no problems since these were made for war and sitting in a closet for decades didn't degrade its functionality (I hope).

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Sledge, I would shoot it [50-100 rounds]. The .30 Carbine round is not so powerfull that a hundred rounds should do any harm, your rifle looks to have been well cared for.

Your trigger group will look a bit different from the one you have pictured, your hammer will be "doglegged" not straight and your hammer spring should have 21-22 coils not 25-26 as shown in the diagram.

My carbine came with a script "Pederson-U" hand guard, changed shipboard or later after the GI returned to the states. The sailor's name was Robert Staley, he said he was a crew member on board a troop ship at Betio [Tarawa]. I don't know if that was a true story, I have yet to find out if he was really in the Navy or Coast Guard at that time.

You have a great example of the M1 carbine, but, be careful, they are addictive and they multiply unexpectedly. In my house, 18-1/2 and counting, 11 GI and 7-1/2 commercial. :}

 

Chuck

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Sledge, I would shoot it [50-100 rounds]. The .30 Carbine round is not so powerfull that a hundred rounds should do any harm, your rifle looks to have been well cared for.

Your trigger group will look a bit different from the one you have pictured, your hammer will be "doglegged" not straight and your hammer spring should have 21-22 coils not 25-26 as shown in the diagram.

My carbine came with a script "Pederson-U" hand guard, changed shipboard or later after the GI returned to the states. The sailor's name was Robert Staley, he said he was a crew member on board a troop ship at Betio [Tarawa]. I don't know if that was a true story, I have yet to find out if he was really in the Navy or Coast Guard at that time.

You have a great example of the M1 carbine, but, be careful, they are addictive and they multiply unexpectedly. In my house, 18-1/2 and counting, 11 GI and 7-1/2 commercial. :}

Chuck

Wow that is quite a few carbines. I can see how collecting them could get to be a habit though. Thanks for the great technical information. I have been itching to shoot it since I laid hands on it. It will be like a step back in time for me. A first.

 

I may have a problem though. After firing a piece of history my usual fun at the range guns may not be so much fun anymore.

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Dirt Detective

 

Is that the pin that almost falls out on its own at the front of the housing? It's back in the stock stored so I'll check in a bit but as I recall it was a bare metal pin.

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(Image from uscarbinecal30.com)

 

Hey lambo35 yours was made only 7k units after mine. Very close production date.

 

Hi Sledge,

Yes that is the pin..Early Carbines had that pin with a spring in it. My 1-43 M1A1 has the spring pin..just curious if yours had it. Like a lot of Carbine parts...They found a cheaper and faster way to make it. They did away with the spring pin because it really wasnt needed, the wood stock kept the trigger housing together.

 

Here is a pic what the spring pin looks like. post-2677-0-98772700-1470073055.jpg

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Hi Sledge,

Yes that is the pin..Early Carbines had that pin with a spring in it. My 1-43 M1A1 has the spring pin..just curious if yours had it. Like a lot of Carbine parts...They found a cheaper and faster way to make it. They did away with the spring pin because it really wasnt needed, the wood stock kept the trigger housing together.

 

Here is a pic what the spring pin looks like. attachicon.gifimages.jpg

Mine was a few months later. The pin is the smooth variety. Do you know when they made the switch or was it gradual as parts were used up?

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everforward

I think this a great M1A1....beautiful shape..! I do have a question though...

 

I have handled more than one in unaltered original condition that had a 'P' proof mark in a circle (like on most Carbines you see) on the back of the pistol grip...

 

What is the general opinion on this--did some have them and some don't..? I know the ones I handled are in pretty sweet condition.

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