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WWII Summer Tunic with Canadian Jump Wings


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#1 Klaxon

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Posted 29 May 2016 - 12:26 PM

Hi All,

Got this unusual Class A  Officers Summer tunic at the show in Pamona a couple weeks ago. Weird set up. Buck SGT. Double collar devices like Korean war era NCO tunics. They are slightly doomed but are screw backs. 3 Overseas bars, Canadian ribbon rack with 3 different campaign medals (Africa, Italy and France and Germany Stars). Early Canadian Jump wings with black wool background, worn on the Right breast. US ribbon rack was gone. Sterling CIB. No name unfortunately. 2nd. Army ssi and Alaska Command combat patch. Instructor? KISKA? 1st SSSF? No signs I can see of there ever being US Jump wings on this tunic.

Any thoughts would be welcome.

Cheers,

Matt

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#2 Klaxon

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Posted 29 May 2016 - 12:26 PM

rack

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#3 Klaxon

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Posted 29 May 2016 - 12:27 PM

wings

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#4 Klaxon

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Posted 29 May 2016 - 12:27 PM

SSI

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#5 Klaxon

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Posted 29 May 2016 - 12:28 PM

Combat SSI

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#6 Klaxon

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Posted 29 May 2016 - 12:28 PM

collar disks and bars

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#7 firefighter

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Posted 29 May 2016 - 05:26 PM

That is a very cool jacket.Must have been infantry, CIB, then Military Police.Did you check all the pockets and inside sleeves, near shoulders, for a name or laundry mark?



#8 Klaxon

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Posted 29 May 2016 - 05:40 PM

Hi Firefighter,
I turned her inside out and nothing.
Would have been nice to find some trace.
Cheers,
Matt

#9 patches

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Posted 29 May 2016 - 06:06 PM

Weird is right, don't know what to make of it really. Canadian ribbons below U.S. !



#10 firefighter

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Posted 29 May 2016 - 06:07 PM

Why thats a big bummer.Anyway to trace Canadian medals with parachute wings, or are those to generic for a narrow search? 



#11 firefighter

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Posted 29 May 2016 - 06:08 PM

Weird is right, don't know what to make of it really. Canadian ribbons below U.S. !

 

They should be below. Goes Federal (military & civilian), state, & foreign.



#12 patches

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Posted 29 May 2016 - 06:10 PM

The coat is what some will consider an officers coat, but these started to be available for EM in the very late 40s-early 50s as a private purchase item. So it seems the rank will be changed by then right, no more Buck Sergeants.



#13 patches

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Posted 29 May 2016 - 06:12 PM

 

They should be below. Goes Federal (military & civilian), state, & foreign.

Yeah I know, but this is a significant amount of foreign ribbons, and when was the last time a American serving soldier received British campaign ribbons?



#14 Klaxon

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Posted 29 May 2016 - 06:21 PM

Weird is right, don't know what to make of it really. Canadian ribbons below U.S. !


Makes sense though, foreign ribbons always come after ones home countries if authorised to wear.
The last one is an association not military medal. The American Legion medal I believe. I'd have to check for sure. Not the VFW one, get them confused. I was told they gave these out to WWI and WWII vets.

#15 patches

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Posted 29 May 2016 - 06:30 PM

Makes sense though, foreign ribbons always come after ones home countries if authorised to wear.
The last one is an association not military medal. The American Legion medal I believe. I'd have to check for sure. Not the VFW one, get them confused. I was told they gave these out to WWI and WWII vets.

Quite weird as you say, if it wasn't for the British rack and the Canadian jump wings, I would state that the coat with all the U.S. cloth insignia on it still, is a post 46-pre 48 unauthorized coat of a currently serving vet who was in Alaska during the recent war, and now is assigned to a unit under 2nd Army, 2nd Army having posts in the east in them days.



#16 Klaxon

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Posted 29 May 2016 - 06:32 PM

Yeah I know, but this is a significant amount of foreign ribbons, and when was the last time a American serving soldier received British campaign ribbons?


Yes even for a Canadian soldiers it a lot of ribbons. Canadians weren't really even in Africa from what I've read. Only Canloan officers assigned to British units and a handful of NCO instructors. I do know the jump school at Shiloh, Manitoba put a lot of US and Brits through its doors.
Just don't know why there's no sign of US wings. Wish I knew what US medals he earned.
I don't know how it worked within this type of situation regarding medals awarded Americans serving in the commonwealth military and then going back to their own countries military. Don't have any others quite like this to compair it to. I guess they'd look something like this.

#17 patches

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Posted 29 May 2016 - 06:51 PM

Yes even for a Canadian soldiers it a lot of ribbons. Canadians weren't really even in Africa from what I've read. Only Canloan officers assigned to British units and a handful of NCO instructors. I do know the jump school at Shiloh, Manitoba put a lot of US and Brits through its doors.
Just don't know why there's no sign of US wings. Wish I knew what US medals he earned.
I don't know how it worked within this type of situation regarding medals awarded Americans serving in the commonwealth military and then going back to their own countries military. Don't have any others quite like this to compair it to. I guess they'd look something like this.

Then there's that U.S. Army Alaska FWTS patch, and more importantly the 2nd Army, that mean an American GI, not a Canadian.



#18 Klaxon

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Posted 29 May 2016 - 07:24 PM

Then there's that U.S. Army Alaska FWTS patch, and more importantly the 2nd Army, that mean an American GI, not a Canadian.

Yes, 100% agree. American all the way. There's no doubt about it.



#19 firefighter

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Posted 30 May 2016 - 01:55 AM

Yeah I know, but this is a significant amount of foreign ribbons, and when was the last time a American serving soldier received British campaign ribbons?

 

I'm thinking the last time was WW2.It is a very odd combination of British/Canadian awards with U.S. overseas combat service.



#20 QED4

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Posted 30 May 2016 - 11:15 AM

I am not getting a good feeling about this uniform at all. He has the Africa Star, Italy Star, France and Germany Star, 1939-45 Star, Defense Medal, and War Medal. He also served in Alaska (don't think that rates as a combat patch) and spent a year and a half overseas. That is a lot of activity for one man, four theaters and two different Armies.



#21 vzemke

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Posted 30 May 2016 - 02:30 PM

Definitely odd.  Here are some thoughts:

 

-Service in Alaska during WWII did in fact rate a combat patch and overseas stripes, but that doesn't really help explain this jacket very much.

 

-Awarding of UK campaign medals to Americans was extremely limited, and when it did occur (such as Ike receiving the Africa Star), it was not the full assortment seen here.  So I think the assumption that the Canadian and Commonwealth medals were awarded to a US GI is unfounded.  Now an American who enlisted in the Canadian military?  Thats much more likely but also a different circumstance.  

 

-To qualify for this rather wide assortment of UK medals this guy had to meet at least the following:

      1) Have voluntarily enlisted in the Canadian military

      2) Served in North Africa BEFORE May 1943 (which makes being a FSSF/Kiska vet somewhat less likely)

      3) Served in France or Germany AFTER 6 June 1944

      4) Served in Italy at some point

      5) Served at least 6 months in the UK at some point during the war

               ..... and at some point he was in the US Army in Alaska?   :unsure:  If a FSSF guy, why on earth would you choose this over the arrowhead patch??

 

-He also had what looks to be 8 US ribbons on this uniform.  Thats a lot for the vast majority of WWII vet, especially relatively junior ones.  

 

-The "buck sergeant" rank on this uniform was discontinued from 1948 to 1956, while the quad collar brass configuration was only worn from after WWII until early in the Korean War (i.e. at nearly the same time the three stripe Sergeant rank was NOT worn).  So that would narrow the window quite a bit if we assume this guy was following basic regulations (which of course we know did not always happen).

 

-He shows 3 overseas stripes, but no service stripe.  Unlikely (but not impossible) to earn 8 ribbons in less than three years.  

 

Despite these questions I think it is a fascinating uniform, I would have been tempted to buy it myself.   As weird as it is, it doesn't scream "put together" to me, mostly because I can't understand why someone would.  


Edited by vzemke, 30 May 2016 - 02:31 PM.


#22 Klaxon

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Posted 30 May 2016 - 02:39 PM

I am not getting a good feeling about this uniform at all. He has the Africa Star, Italy Star, France and Germany Star, 1939-45 Star, Defense Medal, and War Medal. He also served in Alaska (don't think that rates as a combat patch) and spent a year and a half overseas. That is a lot of activity for one man, four theaters and two different Armies.

You may be right but I don't think it's put together. Not really think this is the kind of uniform set up someone would fake. Both SSI's are not units with illustrious histories. I found it interesting as I collect US and Commonwealth uniforms. It's so unusual which I also like to find. It was only $50 for the tunic and the early jump wings are worth a lot more than that.
As I said I don't know how it worked back with Anericans fighting and training with foreign troops and their awards.
Africa and Italian campaign stars make sense as it was a staging/training ground for the invasion of Sicily/Italy.
France and Germany why not. Early war with us Canucks end of the war with US? Would have been nice to know what US medals he was awarded.

#23 patches

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Posted 30 May 2016 - 06:16 PM

Definitely odd.  Here are some thoughts:

 

-Service in Alaska during WWII did in fact rate a combat patch and overseas stripes, but that doesn't really help explain this jacket very much.

 

-Awarding of UK campaign medals to Americans was extremely limited, and when it did occur (such as Ike receiving the Africa Star), it was not the full assortment seen here.  So I think the assumption that the Canadian and Commonwealth medals were awarded to a US GI is unfounded.  Now an American who enlisted in the Canadian military?  Thats much more likely but also a different circumstance.  

 

-To qualify for this rather wide assortment of UK medals this guy had to meet at least the following:

      1) Have voluntarily enlisted in the Canadian military

      2) Served in North Africa BEFORE May 1943 (which makes being a FSSF/Kiska vet somewhat less likely)

      3) Served in France or Germany AFTER 6 June 1944

      4) Served in Italy at some point

      5) Served at least 6 months in the UK at some point during the war

               ..... and at some point he was in the US Army in Alaska?   :unsure:  If a FSSF guy, why on earth would you choose this over the arrowhead patch??

 

-He also had what looks to be 8 US ribbons on this uniform.  Thats a lot for the vast majority of WWII vet, especially relatively junior ones.  

 

-The "buck sergeant" rank on this uniform was discontinued from 1948 to 1956, while the quad collar brass configuration was only worn from after WWII until early in the Korean War (i.e. at nearly the same time the three stripe Sergeant rank was NOT worn).  So that would narrow the window quite a bit if we assume this guy was following basic regulations (which of course we know did not always happen).

 

-He shows 3 overseas stripes, but no service stripe.  Unlikely (but not impossible) to earn 8 ribbons in less than three years.  

 

Despite these questions I think it is a fascinating uniform, I would have been tempted to buy it myself.   As weird as it is, it doesn't scream "put together" to me, mostly because I can't understand why someone would.  

A excellent dissertation Vance.



#24 patches

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Posted 30 May 2016 - 07:15 PM

How are these British ribbons attached by the way?



#25 Klaxon

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Posted 30 May 2016 - 09:17 PM

How are these British ribbons attached by the way?


They are hand sewn on. Same thread as the wings.


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