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Collar discs

Started by Jutter , May 27 2016 03:15 AM

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#1 Jutter

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Posted 27 May 2016 - 03:15 AM

Hello all,

 

I was just wondering,

 

It's a bit unclear to me what collar discs a soldier would wear on his dress uniform.

 

If for instance a soldier was in a armored division, but in an artillery regiment, would he wear the armored or artillery discs on his uniform.

Same goes for soldiers in an infantry regiment and/or medical battalion as part of an armored division.

 

So are the discs based on the type of divsion the soldier was in or based on the regiment/battalion?

 

Kind regards,

 

Sebastian



#2 Allan H.

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Posted 27 May 2016 - 05:07 AM

Sebastian,

 

The disk worn by enlisted soldiers would match their Military Occupational Specialty or MOS. In most combat units, the soldier would hold an MOS matching that unit. As an example, if a soldier was an artilleryman serving in an artillery battalion, he would wear artillery brass. It wouldn't matter if the soldier was in an armored division or in an infantry division. You would probably also find soldiers wearing signal brass, ordnance brass, and medical brass in the units also.

 

Collar brass can be a bit confusing because there are a few exceptions. Soldiers serving in Cavalry units would normally wear crossed swords even if they had other MOS's. Infantry soldiers serving in the 1st Cavalry Division wore Cav brass as the army designated the infantry assets in the division as Cavalry.

 

There was also no Tank Destroyer Corps, but soldiers assigned to Tank Destroyer units generally wore Tank Destroyer brass.

 

I hope this helps.

 

Allan



#3 MattS

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Posted 27 May 2016 - 05:26 AM

I second what Allan says, it depends on what the soldier's job (MOS) was. A trained supply clerk would wear quartermaster collar brass even if he was assigned to a bomber wing in the 8th Air Force. However, an aircraft mechanic temporarily assigned to help the supply clerk still wore aviation brass because of his training.  



#4 Justin B.

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Posted 27 May 2016 - 07:43 AM

Please correct me if I am wrong but my understanding is that in WW2/Korea the enlisted brass was more "regimental," so a clerk/typist or a cook in an infantry unit wore infantry rifles (sometimes with unit numbers and letters). Medics were an exception, though, I think.

 
I remember a few posts here from members over the years about the transition from unit-based to MOS-based branch brass, and IIRC it was in the '70s but I can't find it right now.
 
Justin B.


#5 Allan H.

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Posted 27 May 2016 - 08:00 AM

You have to remember that there have been a lot of changes that have occured in the army over the years. In WWII and Korea, many jobs in a unit were an additional duty and were not necessarily a primary MOS. As and example, I have known a number of WWII paratroopers who were radio operators, clerks, etc. but they were riflemen first and thus wore crossed rifle brass. Cooks were integral to all units, so they too were doing the job with extra training.

 

With many "old Hand" WWII veterans, they would call the PFC chevron the "third cook's rank" because in the TO&E of an infantry company, the PFC ranks were assigned to the mess section. You have to remember that the units were very different in WWII compared to Vietnam and later. If you were a sergeant, you were one of only a few in the company, if you transferred to another unit, your stripes stayed and you became a private again.

 

I hope this helps.

Allan



#6 Justin B.

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Posted 27 May 2016 - 09:07 AM

Yes, great info, thanks. That's what I meant by "regimental," how back in the 1800s most everybody enlisted in and identified as members of one regiment until they discharged. Though back then there were far fewer specialized jobs, of course.
 
Here is one of the posts I was thinking of:
http://www.usmilitar...list/?p=2059073
 
Justin B.

#7 atb

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Posted 27 May 2016 - 09:20 AM

If I am recalling correctly, up until around 1977-78 a soldier wore the Branch of Service (BOS) insignia of his or her assigned unit. In 1970, I was a General Draftsman, an Engineer MOS, but I wore Air Defense Artillery BOS insignia because I was assigned to an artillery brigade. Later, I wore Military Police BOS insignia while assigned to an MP brigade and later still, Signal Corps BOS insignia when assigned to a Signal unit. In Recruiting Command, I woer the Unassigned to Branch insignia since the unit was branch immaterial. After 1977 or 1978, I wore the BOS of my MOS which by then was a Signal Corps MOS (Unassigned to Branch insignia was then worn by Command Sergeants Major).



#8 MattS

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Posted 27 May 2016 - 10:23 AM

That could be, I think I am using the later standards that weren't used in WW2.



#9 1SG_1st_Cav

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Posted 27 May 2016 - 06:11 PM

1st Cavalry Division [AIRMOBILE] in Vietnam, Infantrymen wore Infantry BOS in the 5th Cav, 7th Cav, 8th Cav, 9th Cav, & 12th Cav. Field Artillerymen wore BOS Artillery in the 2-17th Artillery, 2-19th Artillery, 2-20th Artillery, 1-21st Artillery, 1-30th Artillery, & 1-77th Artillery.



#10 Jutter

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Posted 28 May 2016 - 10:51 PM

Thanks for all the responses! Always learning!

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#11 Retired Army Noncom

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 03:06 PM

In the case of Drill Sgts.....when I went on the DS duty, I could wear my MOS brass or the brass of my last unit which is what I did for 5.8 years (1970-1975), since DS duty was a specialized duty, either could be worn.


Edited by Retired Army Noncom, 13 September 2017 - 03:07 PM.


#12 elbertson

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 11:30 PM

If I am recalling correctly, up until around 1977-78 a soldier wore the Branch of Service (BOS) insignia of his or her assigned unit. In 1970, I was a General Draftsman, an Engineer MOS, but I wore Air Defense Artillery BOS insignia because I was assigned to an artillery brigade. Later, I wore Military Police BOS insignia while assigned to an MP brigade and later still, Signal Corps BOS insignia when assigned to a Signal unit. In Recruiting Command, I woer the Unassigned to Branch insignia since the unit was branch immaterial. After 1977 or 1978, I wore the BOS of my MOS which by then was a Signal Corps MOS (Unassigned to Branch insignia was then worn by Command Sergeants Major).


Total opposite from anything I ever saw in the 70's. I had an MP MOS, but was never in an MP unit. As such, I wore MP insignia. All others around me did likewise according to their MOS.

Edited by elbertson, 13 September 2017 - 11:40 PM.


#13 atb

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 04:49 PM

Total opposite from anything I ever saw in the 70's. I had an MP MOS, but was never in an MP unit. As such, I wore MP insignia. All others around me did likewise according to their MOS.

AR 670-5 May 1969, paragraph 14-11h was my guide (and the rest of the Army, too, I suppose) in 1970. Paragraph 14-11h2 seems to cover your situation.



#14 elbertson

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Posted 16 September 2017 - 02:31 AM

Any chance you have an online link to that paragraph? A quick Google search resulted in the usual run around with no luck.

#15 atb

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Posted 17 September 2017 - 07:22 AM

Any chance you have an online link to that paragraph? A quick Google search resulted in the usual run around with no luck.

Here is a scan of the pertinent page. See h.

Attached Images

  • AR 670-5 1969 EM BoS Insignia.jpg

Edited by atb, 17 September 2017 - 07:23 AM.



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