mortaydc60 Posted May 27, 2016 Share #1 Posted May 27, 2016 This patch was recently just relisted as a BIN for $1600 or make an offer. Looks to much like a Paki repro and the bullion is not at all close to an original which I have in my hand. The cute twist that was added is the quilted white area behind the hangmens noose which is uncommon on repro's. What do you think? Item # 121998357809 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocsfollowme Posted May 27, 2016 Share #2 Posted May 27, 2016 My opinion was that it was Paki. It differed too much from Bill Scotts in quality of fabric. The noose was different too. I just think that Scotty's had too much more detail that one should expect. Scotty's version is seen below. http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/204236-rare-sugamo-prison-555mp/?hl=sugamo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocsfollowme Posted May 27, 2016 Share #3 Posted May 27, 2016 http://www.ebay.com/itm/121996517140?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vzemke Posted May 27, 2016 Share #4 Posted May 27, 2016 I saw this one too. My heart skipped a beat when I first saw the listing, but when I took a closer look I came to the conclusion that it was not original. The seller also seems to have a variety of fake patches being listed as original (some real stuff too). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firefighter Posted May 27, 2016 Share #5 Posted May 27, 2016 Here is a larger pic of the front & back. <> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Scott Posted May 27, 2016 Share #6 Posted May 27, 2016 I do not like it either just my opinion.Scotty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortaydc60 Posted May 27, 2016 Author Share #7 Posted May 27, 2016 Hi Bill, Thanks for your confirmation. For the forum members the key traits of Paki repro are the classic BLACK paper/cloth back and the double line of bullion outline, plus the heavy thick bullion lettering. For me the biggest surprise was the quilting applied to the white background behind the noose,never saw that before. Perhaps another tell was when first list was for a low amount and than listed at 1600 which is much less than an original by atleast $1000. Again just one mans opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vintageproductions Posted May 27, 2016 Share #8 Posted May 27, 2016 This was listed for sale on the WAF last week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocsfollowme Posted May 27, 2016 Share #9 Posted May 27, 2016 Another tell of the Paki patches is the type of fabric that they use: rough, stiff fabric, basic color patterns. Notice Bill's example....I am sure that was a silk material of the highest quality and the colors are very unique. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave peifer Posted May 27, 2016 Share #10 Posted May 27, 2016 This was listed for sale on the WAF last week. i was going to say that,you beat me to it...............dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spinnin4s Posted May 28, 2016 Share #11 Posted May 28, 2016 FYI an outline of double bullion beading does not necessarily suggest a reproduction patch. I have a few German made early post war bullion patches I purchased from a GI stationed in occupied Germany 1945-49 that have the double bullion beading borders. Here's an example of a XXIII Corps patch from the purchase with a double bullion border: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tredhed2 Posted May 28, 2016 Share #12 Posted May 28, 2016 When the double bullion borders are gold they usually do........but not taken as the only reason to doubt the authenticity of a patch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortaydc60 Posted May 28, 2016 Author Share #13 Posted May 28, 2016 Thanks Dave for comment;the double Gold border alone is not enough,the black paper back adds further evidence,which is usually the first sign of a problem. I bet that the 23rd corp shown above does not have a black back so my first thought would NOT be a Paki but what it was,German. Thanks for showing that piece it really helps especially showing the double border but in SILVERR which Dave estutely pointed out you do not see in Paki work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spinnin4s Posted May 28, 2016 Share #14 Posted May 28, 2016 Here's a 49th Armored that I believe original (opinions welcome) with a double gold beaded bullion border. Likely German made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tredhed2 Posted May 28, 2016 Share #15 Posted May 28, 2016 As I said, double bullion borders in gold will not be th e ONLY characteristic of a paki made patch. Paki patches do not feature the wool, the emb, or the fine silk backs like occupation made German or Japanese made patches do. Should be pretty clear by now. Yes, the 49th patch depicted is German made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNY Militaria Posted June 6, 2016 Share #16 Posted June 6, 2016 Listed again: http://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-WWII-WAR-CRIMES-555-SUGAMO-PRISON-PATCH-NO-GLOW-ORIGINAL-/122007238296?hash=item1c6832b698:g:QrIAAOSwQaJXROIz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
militbuff Posted January 7, 2017 Share #17 Posted January 7, 2017 And again. http://www.ebay.com/itm/122300664906?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortaydc60 Posted January 7, 2017 Author Share #18 Posted January 7, 2017 The offer price could also be used as an indicator that it is not real,too low. Realistic price is triple of what is offered if real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocsfollowme Posted November 10, 2018 Share #19 Posted November 10, 2018 Looks like it was just sewn to a jacket https://www.ebay.com/itm/ORIGINAL-WW2-US-ARMY-BULLION-555-SUGAMO-PRISON-PATCH-MILITARY-POLICE-TUNIC/143007945796?hash=item214bf01444:g:rIQAAOSwsPNb5kAq Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Iron Brigade Posted November 10, 2018 Share #20 Posted November 10, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearmon Posted November 10, 2018 Share #21 Posted November 10, 2018 Three different Ebay seller ID's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tredhed2 Posted November 10, 2018 Share #22 Posted November 10, 2018 Sent seller a mssg and invited him to chime in.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
militbuff Posted November 10, 2018 Share #23 Posted November 10, 2018 Does anyone have a pic of an original one sewn on a jacket. Would love to see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortaydc60 Posted November 11, 2018 Author Share #24 Posted November 11, 2018 To further reinforce Daves earlier statement on Double row borders being a bad sign;the only two known real examples shown have a Single row border. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tredhed2 Posted November 11, 2018 Share #25 Posted November 11, 2018 This is a consigned item now on Ebay. and I was told the info that my mssge would be passed along to the actual owner..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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