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The M1951 Chevrons In Use Post 1958.

Started by patches , May 24 2016 06:38 PM

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#1 patches

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Posted 24 May 2016 - 06:38 PM

Seeing as there was a question posed on the cut of date for wear of these, I thought I'd post three examples of them being worn still way past 1958-59. In each case we see senior NCOs seem to have affected the use still. Also think I seen them on at least one NCO in combat in RVN, maybe I'll come across that photo again.

 

1960-63

 

post-34986-0-48117600-1463971004.jpg


Edited by patches, 24 May 2016 - 06:39 PM.


#2 patches

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Posted 24 May 2016 - 06:40 PM

Post 1961 (note the M1961 Butt Pack).

 

tod_stripes_10001.jpg

 

 



#3 patches

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Posted 24 May 2016 - 06:44 PM

And this one, I don't know date, 6th SF Grp could be any time from 1965 till 68, probably 1968 as the one with the OD on Blue M51 stripes has a subdued SF patch/w tab.

tod_stripes_20002.jpg

 



#4 KurtA

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Posted 25 May 2016 - 03:27 AM

As usual, great photos, Patches.  Good chance these remained popular for unofficial use as "subdued" chevrons. 



#5 patches

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Posted 25 May 2016 - 08:18 AM

As usual, great photos, Patches.  Good chance these remained popular for unofficial use as "subdued" chevrons. 

My pleasure. If any other interested parties come across these, by all means post foto.



#6 patches

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Posted 11 August 2016 - 05:40 PM

WWII stripes.jpg

This Online Find is interesting, either a PFC Pre 1968 or Post 68 PVT E-2, looks like he's wearing the old WWII OD Embroidered on Wool type PFC chevrons. Studied it real hard, doesn't seem to be dyed Gold on AG 44 types, nor the 50s OD on Blue Twills either, also looks almost like a stripe cut away from a higher grade rank, like Cpl,Sgt etc right?



#7 patches

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Posted 22 August 2016 - 05:45 PM

tan_vcr_120003.jpg

 

Found another one, again a senior NCO, at Fort Gordon Georgia, IN the summer of 1962.



#8 patches

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Posted 31 January 2017 - 06:48 PM

And this gem 1st Sergeant Hollis Stevens, Top of B Co 2nd of the 12th Cavalry during Operation Pershing February 67. Here we see that this old OD on Blue srtipes sewn to a Tropical coat and not an old fatique shirt he might of brought over with him.

 

hollis stevens  B 2nd bn 12th Cav Peshing feb 67.jpg

 

 

 

 

 



#9 seanmc1114

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Posted 01 March 2017 - 02:07 PM

Here's one I've seen numerous times before. I'm not sure but I think it may have appeared in National Geographic or Life magazine. I'm assuming it's from around 1963 or 1964.

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  • Chevrons.Advisor.Vietnam.jpg

Edited by seanmc1114, 01 March 2017 - 02:11 PM.


#10 patches

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Posted 12 June 2017 - 05:09 PM

Two NCOs of the Ft Devens Massachusetts based 1st Howitzer Battalion, 76th Artillery 2nd Infantry Brigade (Sep) in 1961 wearing the type, and on their Khaki shirts. Only one of them wears the new Yellow of Army Green type.

 

post-34986-0-11634600-1497315869.jpg


Edited by patches, 12 June 2017 - 05:10 PM.


#11 hardstripe

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 04:28 AM

From 1948-58 there was no sergeant with three stripes. the grade structure went from Pvt, PFC, Corporal, Sergeant, Technical Sergeant and Master Sergeant and the grade structure went grade 7 (no chevron), grade 6 (no chevron) grade 5 (PFC), grade 4 (corporal), grade 3 (sergeant), grade 2 (technical sergeant) and grade 1 (master sergeant or first sergeant). A sergeant wore three chevrons and one rocker. When the new yellow on green chevrons were adopted in 1958 the rank of sergeant with three chevrons was reinstated and the grade structure was realigned.

 

Regulations allowed a soldier who was a Sergeant or a Technical Sergeant prior to 1958 to continue to wear the old style chevrons until promoted to a new grade. These soldiers were originally in the grades of grade 3 and grade 2. When the conversion happened these soldiers converted to E-5 and E-6 respectively. If a soldier had enough time in service and time in grade they were converted to E-6 and E-7 and wore the new chevrons for that grade.

 

Many NCOs wore the old style chevrons to show their longevity and so that they would not have to spoil uniforms by sewing on the new chevrons over the stitch marks of the old. That would have looked like they had been reduced in grade and rank at some point. That was a big morale issue at the time.. 



#12 patches

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 09:01 AM

So this depiction from MASH of Sgt Klinger in 1953 is wrong! :lol: :P

 

sgt klinger.jpg



#13 bheskett

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 10:41 AM

So this depiction from MASH of Sgt Klinger in 1953 is wrong! :lol: :P

 

attachicon.gifsgt klinger.jpg

 

What MASH not correct with uniforms.  That's the only reason I watched it :)



#14 patches

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 10:47 AM



 

What MASH not correct with uniforms.  That's the only reason I watched it :)

Yes, got to love those 2nd and  3rd Pattern Fatique shirts, you know the ones that started be issued in 1965 and 1966 respectively :lol:

 

500px-MASHtv-star1.jpg 8c0946448fc7b57a09459670c6e0109b.jpg



#15 hardstripe

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 12:19 PM

Other than the Korean War taking place on the Korean Peninsula, what, if anything, was correct about the MASH TV show.



#16 patches

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 05:04 PM

Other than the Korean War taking place on the Korean Peninsula, what, if anything, was correct about the MASH TV show.

Hmm.....Let's see...................



#17 Justin B.

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Posted 14 June 2017 - 07:39 AM

From 1948-58 there was no sergeant with three stripes. the grade structure went from Pvt, PFC, Corporal, Sergeant, Technical Sergeant and Master Sergeant and the grade structure went grade 7 (no chevron), grade 6 (no chevron) grade 5 (PFC), grade 4 (corporal), grade 3 (sergeant), grade 2 (technical sergeant) and grade 1 (master sergeant or first sergeant). A sergeant wore three chevrons and one rocker. When the new yellow on green chevrons were adopted in 1958 the rank of sergeant with three chevrons was reinstated and the grade structure was realigned.
 
Regulations allowed a soldier who was a Sergeant or a Technical Sergeant prior to 1958 to continue to wear the old style chevrons until promoted to a new grade. These soldiers were originally in the grades of grade 3 and grade 2. When the conversion happened these soldiers converted to E-5 and E-6 respectively. If a soldier had enough time in service and time in grade they were converted to E-6 and E-7 and wore the new chevrons for that grade.
 
Many NCOs wore the old style chevrons to show their longevity and so that they would not have to spoil uniforms by sewing on the new chevrons over the stitch marks of the old. That would have looked like they had been reduced in grade and rank at some point. That was a big morale issue at the time..

 
Great point to remember about the transition in grades. Sergeant First Class took over from Technical Sergeant as the two-rocker grade in 1948.
 

Yes, got to love those 2nd and  3rd Pattern Fatique shirts, you know the ones that started be issued in 1965 and 1966 respectively :lol:


Right! Did anyone wear a wool shirt? I don't remember any, even when they talked about how cold it was. And when the officers got dressed up they always wore pinks and greens, I don't recall ever seeing one in the OD Ike.

But, I can't hold it against them!

Justin B.

#18 patches

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Posted 14 June 2017 - 10:06 AM

 
Great point to remember about the transition in grades. Sergeant First Class took over from Technical Sergeant as the two-rocker grade in 1948.
 

Right! Did anyone wear a wool shirt? I don't remember any, even when they talked about how cold it was. And when the officers got dressed up they always wore pinks and greens, I don't recall ever seeing one in the OD Ike.

But, I can't hold it against them!

Justin B.

There were several Officer IKEs, Potter wore one, for example, some genera;s aide's, a cut down coat style affair, while a few other did too. the same type, guests actors,, perhaps they used the same IKE, just switched out insignia :lol: GOOGLE Eldon Quick MASH for images, to see coat, can't find one with Potter.



#19 Justin B.

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Posted 14 June 2017 - 10:52 AM

There were several Officer IKEs, Potter wore one, for example, some genera;s aide's, a cut down coat style affair, while a few other did too. the same type, guests actors,, perhaps they used the same IKE, just switched out insignia :lol: GOOGLE Eldon Quick MASH for images, to see coat, can't find one with Potter.


Sorry, I put that wrong, I remember some in the darker Shade 51 Ike with pink pants, but not the OD Shade 33 with matching pants.

Justin B.

#20 patches

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Posted 14 June 2017 - 05:06 PM

Sorry, I put that wrong, I remember some in the darker Shade 51 Ike with pink pants, but not the OD Shade 33 with matching pants.

Justin B.

That's right, no EMs shade officers stuff. BUT there were EM IKE, like ONE time HAHA, Radar wore one in the first season once, and with the correct quad collar dics, but afterwards with all EMs, they were the long obsolete M1929 coat.



#21 seanmc1114

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Posted 14 July 2017 - 07:31 AM

1960 according to the caption.

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  • Seventh Army.Staff Sergeant.jpg


#22 Martinjmpr

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Posted 19 July 2017 - 09:38 AM

Here's one I've seen numerous times before. I'm not sure but I think it may have appeared in National Geographic or Life magazine. I'm assuming it's from around 1963 or 1964.

 

Isn't it possible that this is the newer gold-on-green insignia that's just gotten dirty and faded in the field?  Kind of looks like it to me. 



#23 patches

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Posted 19 July 2017 - 11:22 AM

 

Isn't it possible that this is the newer gold-on-green insignia that's just gotten dirty and faded in the field?  Kind of looks like it to me. 

post-1761-0-61788100-1488406037.jpg

 

Nope that's the M1951 ranks, note the Blue background and the OD stripes. Admittedly, with B/W photos it could be possible they are dirty, even dyed Gold on Green stripes, but even with B/W photos when you have studied for years this, as well as had in hand whether loose examples or sewn to uniform items like several members to include myself, you can really spot the different types and determine which is which.


Edited by patches, 19 July 2017 - 11:24 AM.


#24 patches

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Posted 30 July 2017 - 05:42 PM

Came across this old topic by trenchfootjoe.

 

Hmm WWII Silver/White Dyed OD, or M1951 types. or dyed Yellow on AG44???

 

post-10797-1272251488.jpg

post-10797-1272251534.jpg

 

 

http://www.usmilitar...-jungle-jacket/




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