Jump to content


Photo

odd ribbon bar found in pocket of Battle of the Bulge veteran


  • Please log in to reply
9 replies to this topic

#1 Adrian6256

Adrian6256
  • Members
    • Member ID: 158,668
  • 185 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Dallas, Texas

Posted 17 May 2016 - 07:12 AM

hello,

i just acquired a grouping form a veteran of the battle of the bulge. he saw service in Europe as an engineer with Pattons Third Army, and was transferred to the Philippines in mid 1945 to the end of the war. i found this ribbon bar in his pocket separate form the rest of his ribbons. i was wondering if its familiar to anyone? I've tried researching this ribbon, but Ive had no luck so far. Thanks very much. 

 

-Adrian

resized_ribbon bar 1.JPG

resized_ribbon bar 2.JPG

resized_ribbon bar 3.JPG



#2 doyler

doyler
  • Members
    • Member ID: 342
  • 33,474 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:Under The Bridge

Posted 17 May 2016 - 07:15 AM

WW1 occupation ribbon bar.These are often found in WW2 groups.Most were given out we assume due to being in the system or avaiable to discharged vets who were in the occupation early

#3 Adrian6256

Adrian6256
  • Members
    • Member ID: 158,668
  • 185 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Dallas, Texas

Posted 17 May 2016 - 07:28 AM

WoW!! i was researching in the wrong war the whole time!! Thanks Doyler. You have been a great help.



#4 doyler

doyler
  • Members
    • Member ID: 342
  • 33,474 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:Under The Bridge

Posted 17 May 2016 - 08:13 AM

Your most welcome.Glad to assist.

I have a uniform or two with them being worn.

#5 JMcCulloch

JMcCulloch
  • Members
    • Member ID: 4,995
  • 181 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New England

Posted 17 May 2016 - 09:50 AM

There is a hypothesis that suggests that these were awarded between 1947 and mid 1948. The Occupation medal for US army troops was authorized in early/mid 1947, although discussed as early as the Fall of 1946.
The actual Army Occupation Medal was first awarded in 1948- almost coincidental with the Navy/Marine Corps version ( which was authorized in early 1948).
The Pentagon debate centered around some sort of award to signify service in occupied Europe, as occupation service was not easy nor all that fun at the time. US troops had to restore civil order amongst chaos, catch ex Nazis, stop rampant criminality, feed millions of starving refugees, combat outbreaks of typhus, diptheria and even malaria in Italy. Then of course there was the hostility of the Stalinists......who were busy taking over eastern Europe.
However, Truman did not sign the actual termination of the war Act until late 1946 ( for political reasons, mostly due to funding and the GI Bill debates) and the official closing date of World War Two, signified by the WW2 victory medal, was Midnight, December 31,1946. The Pentagon had (and still purportedly has) a strict " only one medal per each campaign rule. Thus, Occupation service technically was supposed to start as of January 1, 1947.
Given the new Occupation medals were not actually given out until the late summer of 1948 and the final design itself was not finalized until January/February (?) of 1948.....it is thought that soldiers were first issued the old style occupation ribbon until the newer version superceded the old WW1.

Attached Images

  • image.jpeg

Edited by JMcCulloch, 17 May 2016 - 09:54 AM.


#6 Allan H.

Allan H.
  • Members
    • Member ID: 151
  • 5,432 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Topeka, Kansas

Posted 18 May 2016 - 07:57 AM

The right is the "China Liberation Ribbon" and is a foreign award. I believe that the colors in the ribbon and that of the Army of Occupation ribbons are purely coincidental.

As an aside, I have encountered these in the effects of navy and marine veterans who left service prior to 1947. I have not encountered this ribbons worn by sailors and marines who didn't end up serving in China.

 

Allan



#7 Kadet

Kadet
  • Members
    • Member ID: 110
  • 4,349 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling

Posted 21 May 2016 - 04:08 AM

There is a hypothesis that suggests that these were awarded between 1947 and mid 1948. The Occupation medal for US army troops was authorized in early/mid 1947, although discussed as early as the Fall of 1946.
The actual Army Occupation Medal was first awarded in 1948- almost coincidental with the Navy/Marine Corps version ( which was authorized in early 1948).
The Pentagon debate centered around some sort of award to signify service in occupied Europe, as occupation service was not easy nor all that fun at the time. US troops had to restore civil order amongst chaos, catch ex Nazis, stop rampant criminality, feed millions of starving refugees, combat outbreaks of typhus, diptheria and even malaria in Italy. Then of course there was the hostility of the Stalinists......who were busy taking over eastern Europe.
However, Truman did not sign the actual termination of the war Act until late 1946 ( for political reasons, mostly due to funding and the GI Bill debates) and the official closing date of World War Two, signified by the WW2 victory medal, was Midnight, December 31,1946. The Pentagon had (and still purportedly has) a strict " only one medal per each campaign rule. Thus, Occupation service technically was supposed to start as of January 1, 1947.
Given the new Occupation medals were not actually given out until the late summer of 1948 and the final design itself was not finalized until January/February (?) of 1948.....it is thought that soldiers were first issued the old style occupation ribbon until the newer version superceded the old WW1.

This is interesting info. I think the WWII era Army Occupation ribbon may have been awarded/used prior to 1948 though. This would track with the sequence for the WWII campaign medals (ribbon first, then the actual medal). I've had the WWII version of this ribbon on uniforms and in groups named to guys that didn't serve past '46/'47. Also the Victory medal wasn't/isn't a campaign medal per se. It has it's own category, so I don't see that the occupation medal authorized date would have to follow the end date of the WWII victory medal. More likely it is tied to the end dates for the EAME and PTO campaign medals...



#8 JMcCulloch

JMcCulloch
  • Members
    • Member ID: 4,995
  • 181 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New England

Posted 24 May 2016 - 02:35 PM

DOH!
Thanks for the China ribbon info. I do not know how I missed that. Sometimes I am just... stupid.
I am certain I have photos somewhere of an AAC Captain with the occupation ribbon in 1947. He was home in 1948. I just have to find them.

Edited by JMcCulloch, 24 May 2016 - 02:42 PM.


#9 JMcCulloch

JMcCulloch
  • Members
    • Member ID: 4,995
  • 181 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New England

Posted 24 May 2016 - 03:35 PM

So, following on my China misidentification, this must be a " navy" top bar, as how could one have a China liberation medal without a China service medal ( Straits of Formosa service?). ...so the "sailor" probably had a China service with star, a ConUS and a Pacific campaign ribbon, minimum.

#10 Brig

Brig

    SENIOR MODERATOR

  • Senior Moderators
    • Member ID: 22
  • 21,724 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Crossroads of the Corps

Posted 31 May 2016 - 10:45 AM

I imagine that vets of the CBI could have had the China Liberation without China Service




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users