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Help with 1779 John Paul Jones medal


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#1 stratasfan

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Posted 16 May 2016 - 12:01 PM

Hi! My sister has a friend (doesn't live in America), and he has an American medal that he is trying to find out about. So, I thought I'd try to dig up some info, and thought someone here might have some ideas. Here is some info from him about it.

 

"I have had an American medal for a number of years now ..... The one thing that I have learned that there were a lot of different copies made but in the readings one that I have found is that the one I have is an original silver medal...... I understand that it was made in 1779 and awarded to John Paul Jones by Augustin Dupre or the French Government...... I have heard that there were anywhere between 12 and 200 original medals made."



#2 Brian Keith

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Posted 16 May 2016 - 06:50 PM

From the book, The Medallic History of the United States of America 1776-1876 by J. F. Loubat, LL.D. 1878

Pg xx – xxi; in a letter Thomas Jefferson wrote to M. Dupre, Engraver of Medals and Medallist of the Royal Academy of Painting and Sculpture, dated Feb. 13, 1789, he sends the “devices” (designs) “for the medals for General Morgan and Rear-Admiral Paul Jones… “ to Dupre for “the success of the dies up to the striking of three hundred and fifty of each medal in gold, silver or bronze…

The description of the Jones medal: “Device: His head (M. Houdon will furnish the bust in plaster).

Legend: JOANNI PAULO JONES CLASSIS PRAEFECTO.

Exergue: COMITIA AMERICANA

Reverse: Naval Engagement

Legend: HOSTIUM NAVIBUS CAPTIS AUT FUGATIS.

Exergue: AD ORAM SCOTIAE 23 SEPT. 1779.”

There is more about it in the book, including an illustration.

BKW



#3 stratasfan

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Posted 18 May 2016 - 03:24 AM

Thanks! I am getting a picture of his medal in a few days, so I can post it then! I appreciate the help!



#4 stratasfan

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Posted 18 May 2016 - 10:24 AM

Here are some pictures of it! He has tested it and it is silver. Is there a way to find out if this is one of the original ones or a later restrike?

 

jpjmedal 3.JPG

 

 

 



#5 stratasfan

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Posted 18 May 2016 - 10:24 AM

jpjmedal 2.JPG



#6 stratasfan

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Posted 18 May 2016 - 10:25 AM

Here is a picture that shows the back and the width in mm:

 

jpjmedal.JPG



#7 Wolfhound

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Posted 18 May 2016 - 11:03 AM

Are the any markings on the rim? The French restrikes often have a pointing hand and the name of metal (cuivre or argent). I also found a few comments on a web site that I can not vouch for. Just from a cursory glance, the letters in COMITIA seem to be leaning slightly leftwards, which seems to be common in the 1850s French restrikes (If the D and M in AD ORAM are low, this another indication of that production).

From a UK collectors website...
"You can tell the original from the restrike, there are small raised dots between the words "CLASSIS PRAEFECTO" and a mark above the "QUEUE" where there was some rust in the original die."



#8 KurtA

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Posted 18 May 2016 - 11:09 AM

 Are there any markings/stampings on the edge?  That may provide a clue if possibly some later strkings were stamped in such a way the originals weren't.  Whatever it is, at a minimum, it's a great looking medal. 



#9 tarbridge

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Posted 18 May 2016 - 11:15 AM

It is a nice looking strike...

#10 KurtA

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Posted 18 May 2016 - 11:29 AM

It is a nice looking strike...

 

I was thinking the same thing.  In quickly looking through the internet just now, everything I saw was either bronze or pewter and didn't look anywhere as "sharp" as this one.



#11 stratasfan

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Posted 18 May 2016 - 01:10 PM

Hi, All! thanks for that info . . . I asked him and he says -

 

"There are no marks on the edge / rim......  There are a couple of small dots between the words but I am not sure about the pony tail......"

 

Does that help? ;) Thanks for helping, I really appreciate and so does he! If I can get any more info, please holler. He and I aren't exactly sure what to notice!




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