A Vietnam War 6th Infantry Division Fatique Shirt.

[patches]

The very first online find for this totally obscure and very hard to find Info on unit.

 

The 6th Inf Div is on the books as being reactivated in November 1967 and assigned to Ft Campbell Kentucky, with elmts eventually assigned to Schofield Barracks Hawaii, probably one of it's Brigades, but don't ask us which one, finding any hard info is like looking for the proverbial needle in a haystack for some odd reason. I got a 6th Div shirt of my own a Pfc and a Class A 4th Div vet, a Sp/4, so they are out there, but I,m imagining scarce. But this is the first I seen online so I just had to save it.

 

It's from some kind of Russian, EBAY???? Site, so don't know how long page will show, did save a couple of the images for Forum prosperity however. The rank and BOS is curious, by the photo it seems to be drawn on? so there is that possibility that the rank and BOS are not original to it, or maybe it's that one odd oddball that one see's every so often and the collar insignia is original to it, but in any event the shirt itself I say is the real deal.

 

 

http://www.postrex.com/US-Army-Vietnam-1ST-CAVALRY-SATEEN-FATIGUE-COMBAT-SHIRT-1960-Vtg-301936290319-ebay

[patches]

Here's the CIB close up with that Nylon Woven U.S. ARMY tape, this tape started to be available in the late spring of 1968 I believe, so it's ok, as the 6th Inf Div was inactivated in late July 1968. This overall shirt has the look of a civilian, probably a kid or a teenager wearing it a lot post Vietnam, that's what happens in a lot of cases with wear and fade of these shirts when we see it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[patches]

Was able to track it down on the American EBAY, here I was able to grab a much much better frontal view of shirt, it may be that there was EM rank on it, and that these were removed, and the Rank and BOS applied there? (see Kid or Teenager theory).

 

 

 

 

Here's the American EBAY link in case someone might want it.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/US-Army-Vietnam-1ST-CAVALRY-SATEEN-FATIGUE-COMBAT-SHIRT-1960-Vtg-/301936290319?hash=item464cce2a0f:g:OcUAAOSw5L9XDyQh

[manayunkman]

Interesting hand drawn insignia.

[manayunkman]

Here is another one of his listings

[patches]

Interesting hand drawn insignia.

Yeah I not to sure that those are original to this particular shirt. In the strictest sense, since it's a transitional badged shirt of the late-sh 60s (IE Subdued tapes and full color shoulder patches and qualification badges) it would have full color officer cloth Rank and Branch of Service insignia.

 

Here's a great example of what we're talking about, Rodger Dolan MOH in South Korea sometime 1967, subdued tapes but everything else full color.

 

[seanmc1114]

The very first online find for this totally obscure and very hard to find Info on unit.

 

The 6th Inf Div is on the books as being reactivated in November 1967 and assigned to Ft Campbell Kentucky, with elmts eventually assigned to Schofield Barracks Hawaii, probably one of it's Brigades, but don't ask us which one, finding any hard info is like looking for the proverbial needle in a haystack for some odd reason. I got a 6th Div shirt of my own a Pfc and a Class A 4th Div vet, a Sp/4, so they are out there, but I,m imagining scarce. But this is the first I seen online so I just had to save it.

 

It's from some kind of Russian, EBAY???? Site, so don't know how long page will show, did save a couple of the images for Forum prosperity however. The rank and BOS is curious, by the photo it seems to be drawn on? so there is that possibility that the rank and BOS are not original to it, or maybe it's that one odd oddball that one see's every so often and the collar insignia is original to it, but in any event the shirt itself I say is the real deal.

 

6th inf div 1968.jpg$_1.JPG67.JPGk1.JPG

 

http://www.postrex.com/US-Army-Vietnam-1ST-CAVALRY-SATEEN-FATIGUE-COMBAT-SHIRT-1960-Vtg-301936290319-ebay

Yes, the history of the 6th during the Vietnam War is not only a bit obscure but also reflects how much of a toll the Vietnam War was taking on the U.S. Army back home by 1967. I read somewhere the other day, but cannot find it now, that the entire 6th Division was originally intended to replace the 25th Infantry Division in Hawaii as the U.S. Army Pacific's strategic reaction force since the 25th had been deployed to Vietnam. Ultimately only the 11th Infantry Brigade was activated in Hawaii, carrying the lineage of the 11th Infantry Brigade from WWI which was one of the infantry brigades assigned to the 6th under the old square division arrangement. I think the ultimate plan was for the 6th to eventually deploy to Vietnam to replace Task Force Oregon in Southern I Corps.

 

Ultimately, only the 11th was deployed to Vietnam in December 1967 as a separate brigade and was assigned to the newly formed Americal Division which replaced Task Force Oregon. The 11th was replaced as Pacific reserve by the mobilized 29th Infantry Brigade of the Hawaii National Guard. The rest of the 6th was organized at Fort Campbell, probably to replace the 101st Airborne which had recently deployed to Vietnam, but was deactivated in June 1968 after flunking its readiness tests.

 

The wikipedia article for the 6th Infantry Division has one other bit of info of interest I have not seen mentioned anywhere else: "In the American build-up during the Vietnam War the division was activated in 1967 at Fort Campbell, Kentucky, and later a forward brigade was located in Hawaii. There was sentiment against sending the division to Vietnam because its shoulder sleeve insignia invited a derisive nickname ("Commie Jew Division") that General Westmoreland, cognizant of troop morale problems, considered too offensive, and the decision was made instead to form the Americal Division (23rd Infantry Division), with less offensive insignia, in Vietnam itself. During June 1968 the US Joint Chiefs of Staff also declared the 6th Infantry Division unsuitable for combatant deployment because it flunked its readiness report, and shortly thereafter the division was terminated on 25 July 1968."

[seanmc1114]

By the way, regarding the wikipedia entry regarding Westmoreland not wanting the 6th in Vietnam, I suspect there is not much truth to that being the reason it never deployed, even if the story about the SSI had some truth. If the division had otherwise been adequately prepared to deploy, it could easily have been reflagged as another unit. I'll bet the truth is that it just wasn't properly trained or manned to deploy. Just saying.

[patches]

The info on this Division is so utterly confusing I think even the Center of Military History doesn't really know whats what. I've been studying this for awhile, and for one do believe that the reactivation 11th Infantry Brigade (Sep) had nothing to do with the 6th Infantry Division, yes in the 20s and 30s, up till the Divisional Infantry Brigades were disbanded, in what 1940, the 11th Infantry Brigade along with the 12th was a part of the 6th Division. But when 11th Inf Bde was reactivated, that's where the similarity ends, it was a completely new unit, that is what the Army is apt to do, gives a the linage of an older unit to a new unit even though the reality is it's a new unit. I say all this as the dates just don't jive, the unit was activated in July 1966 in Hawaii a full year and four months before the 6th Inf Div was reactivated. The 11th Infantry Brigade is designated as a Separate Brigade at that time right, not as a Brigade of the 6th Infantry Division, and further, why wasn't the entire 6th Inf Div just reactivated in Hawaii.

 

In Stanton's Order of Battle Vietnam, which has the most plausible info on the 11th Inf Bde (Sep) albeit brief, says the brigade was activated for the purpose of having a "Strategic Armed Forces Role Replacing the 25th Infantry Division" the 25th Inf Div by July 1966 was In Country in total by that time, so this makes sense, they needed some Army Ground presence in Hawaii, and with out a Division, they just activated a Brigade, gave a three of numbered CARS Infantry Battalions of Regiments that USED to be a part of the old 6th Division, the 3rd Battalion 1st Infantry, the 4th Battalion 3rd Infantry (3rd Infantry was in the 6th Division October 1939-May 1941), and the 1st Battalion 20th Infantry, the other battalion, was of the 21st Infantry, a unit that had no history with the old 6th Division, this battalion being the 4th Battalion 21st Infantry.

 

Now whether the newly activated 11th Infantry Brigade was supposed to be a nucleus of a reactivated 6th Infantry Division? I not sure it was, if it was, why so long before the 6th Inf Div is reactivated? The clue as to why elemts of the 6th Inf Div were sent to Schofield, they replaced the 11th Inf Bde (Sep). The statement in the official line of the 11th Inf Bde being replaced by the Hawaiian NG's 129th Infantry Brigade is wrong in my view, this unit is not Federalized until mid May 1968 at least five months after the 11th Inf Bde leaves Hawaii and goes over to South Vietnam in Mid December 1967.

 

When the 6th Infantry Division is reactivated, it seems to have been exclusively at Fort Campbell, the date is according to Stanton, 24 November 1967, that date is important, as by 24 November the entire remaining 101st Airborne Division had departed to South Vietnam, (it's 1st Brigade was already there since July 1965), the 6th Inf Div no doubt occupied the recently vacated barracks' of the 101.

 

Now back to Hawaii, when the 11th Inf Bde leaves for South Vietnam in Mid December of 67, there are no more Ground Forces in the Islands, here is when I believe it's decided to send a Brigade of the 6th Inf Div to Hawaii, here as mentioned, it had nothing to do with the 6th Inf Div being affiliated with the departed 11th Inf Bde, the Army just needed a unit, and as however at strength or under strength (Probably under strength) it was, was the only available unit that could be spared as there are by then only four divisions and two brigades separate in CONUS, the 1st and 2nd Armored Divisions (they're earmarked for NATO) the 5th Infantry Division (Mech) (also earmarked for NATO, probably South Korea too) and the Strategic Reserve, the 82nd Airborne Division, plus those two brigades, the 197th Infantry Brigade (Sep), and the 194th Armored Brigade (Sep).

 

The 29th Infantry Brigade (Sep)? It along with the other NG Infantry Brigade, the 69th from Kansas and all the other National Guard and Reserve units were federalized and or activated by Washington because of the recent double blows of the TET Offensive and the USS Pueblo incident really. The idea that the 29th Inf Bde was federalized to replace the South Vietnam departing 11th Inf Bde as mentioned is wrong in my estimation. Figure by the time the federalized 29th Inf Bde closed on Schofield was by late May early June, it just co-located with that elemt of the 6th Inf Div at Schofield. When it's decided to inactivate the 6th Infantry Division towards July 1968, I believe the Army just couldn't have this under strength Division, with part of it's meager strength serving far afield from it's parent at Fort Campbell, and chose to close it out, with it really having nothing to do with bad ratings during field problems, but more with the personnel could be used better elsewhere. Here, the majority of the division at Campbell, as well as that unit in Hawaii, I bet was liquidated, it's Vietnam vets, which I'm sure were quite plentiful within the 6th Inf Div were shipped out to the other divisions in CONUS, and those 6th Inf Div guys new to the Army were in a large part sent to South Vietnam as individual replacements.

 

So what do think

 

I'll give my take on that Commie Div and Americal thing later, I got type cramp

[seanmc1114]

The info on this Division is so utterly confusing I think even the Center of Military History doesn't really know whats what. I've been studying this for awhile, and for one do believe that the reactivation 11th Infantry Brigade (Sep) had nothing to do with the 6th Infantry Division, yes in the 20s and 30s, up till the Divisional Infantry Brigades were disbanded, in what 1940, the 11th Infantry Brigade along with the 12th was a part of the 6th Division. But when 11th Inf Bde was reactivated, that's where the similarity ends, it was a completely new unit, that is what the Army is apt to do, gives a the linage of an older unit to a new unit even though the reality is it's a new unit. I say all this as the dates just don't jive, the unit was activated in July 1966 in Hawaii a full year and four months before the 6th Inf Div was reactivated. The 11th Infantry Brigade is designated as a Separate Brigade at that time right, not as a Brigade of the 6th Infantry Division, and further, why wasn't the entire 6th Inf Div just reactivated in Hawaii.

 

In Stanton's Order of Battle Vietnam, which has the most plausible info on the 11th Inf Bde (Sep) albeit brief, says the brigade was activated for the purpose of having a "Strategic Armed Forces Role Replacing the 25th Infantry Division" the 25th Inf Div by July 1966 was In Country in total by that time, so this makes sense, they needed some Army Ground presence in Hawaii, and with out a Division, they just activated a Brigade, gave a three of numbered CARS Infantry Battalions of Regiments that USED to be a part of the old 6th Division, the 3rd Battalion 1st Infantry, the 4th Battalion 3rd Infantry (3rd Infantry was in the 6th Division October 1939-May 1941), and the 1st Battalion 20th Infantry, the other battalion, was of the 21st Infantry, a unit that had no history with the old 6th Division, this battalion being the 4th Battalion 21st Infantry.

 

Now whether the newly activated 11th Infantry Brigade was supposed to be a nucleus of a reactivated 6th Infantry Division? I not sure it was, if it was, why so long before the 6th Inf Div is reactivated? The clue as to why elemts of the 6th Inf Div were sent to Schofield, they replaced the 11th Inf Bde (Sep). The statement in the official line of the 11th Inf Bde being replaced by the Hawaiian NG's 129th Infantry Brigade is wrong in my view, this unit is not Federalized until mid May 1968 at least five months after the 11th Inf Bde leaves Hawaii and goes over to South Vietnam in Mid December 1967.

 

When the 6th Infantry Division is reactivated, it seems to have been exclusively at Fort Campbell, the date is according to Stanton, 24 November 1967, that date is important, as by 24 November the entire remaining 101st Airborne Division had departed to South Vietnam, (it's 1st Brigade was already there since July 1965), the 6th Inf Div no doubt occupied the recently vacated barracks' of the 101.

 

Now back to Hawaii, when the 11th Inf Bde leaves for South Vietnam in Mid December of 67, there are no more Ground Forces in the Islands, here is when I believe it's decided to send a Brigade of the 6th Inf Div to Hawaii, here as mentioned, it had nothing to do with the 6th Inf Div being affiliated with the departed 11th Inf Bde, the Army just needed a unit, and as however at strength or under strength (Probably under strength) it was, was the only available unit that could be spared as there are by then only four divisions and two brigades separate in CONUS, the 1st and 2nd Armored Divisions (they're earmarked for NATO) the 5th Infantry Division (Mech) (also earmarked for NATO, probably South Korea too) and the Strategic Reserve, the 82nd Airborne Division, plus those two brigades, the 197th Infantry Brigade (Sep), and the 194th Armored Brigade (Sep).

 

The 29th Infantry Brigade (Sep)? It along with the other NG Infantry Brigade, the 69th from Kansas and all the other National Guard and Reserve units were federalized and or activated by Washington because of the recent double blows of the TET Offensive and the USS Pueblo incident really. The idea that the 29th Inf Bde was federalized to replace the South Vietnam departing 11th Inf Bde as mentioned is wrong in my estimation. Figure by the time the federalized 29th Inf Bde closed on Schofield was by late May early June, it just co-located with that elemt of the 6th Inf Div at Schofield. When it's decided to inactivate the 6th Infantry Division towards July 1968, I believe the Army just couldn't have this under strength Division, with part of it's meager strength serving far afield from it's parent at Fort Campbell, and chose to close it out, with it really having nothing to do with bad ratings during field problems, but more with the personnel could be used better elsewhere. Here, the majority of the division at Campbell, as well as that unit in Hawaii, I bet was liquidated, it's Vietnam vets, which I'm sure were quite plentiful within the 6th Inf Div were shipped out to the other divisions in CONUS, and those 6th Inf Div guys new to the Army were in a large part sent to South Vietnam as individual replacements.

 

So what do think

 

I'll give my take on that Commie Div and Americal thing later, I got type cramp

I have nothing conclusive to add so the following musings are purely speculative. However, my google search of the 6th Infantry Division shows several online articles that state it was reactivated 24 November 1966 and not 1967 as you mentioned; I think that date came from Vietnam Order Of Battle and may be an error on Stanton's part. While that doesn't definitively resolve any connection vis a vis the 11th Infantry Brigade, it does put the activation of both units closer in time to each other.

 

Again, it's only speculation but I say there is too much coincidence in the 11th Infantry Brigade having previously been one of the two brigades serving with the square 6th Infantry Division pre-WWII for there not to be some connection with the reactivation of the 6th Division. If you think about it, virtually all of the light infantry brigades activated from the early 60's on, when they were created as separate maneuver units, were numbered much higher such as the 187th, 194th Armored, 196th, 197th, 198th, 199th and 173rd Airborne Brigades.

 

As to the timing of mobilizing the two National Guard brigades (29th and 69th), I have a feeling those decisions were delayed a long as possible from a political standpoint.

 

Finally, with regard to whether the 11th Brigade had any connection with the 6th Division during the Vietnam period, do we have any information to suggest the 6th existed with three brigades of its own while the 11th was in Hawaii? That might shed some light on things. In fact, I'm sure there is a definitive answer to all these questions tucked away in the National Archives somewhere.

[patches]

Found more concret info According to this from CMH it does give basically the same info about the 11th Inf Bde and the 6th Inf Div connection, see I was really of the impression that that is just an after thought of the Army historians to add that connection, maybe I'm in error on that, nevertheless It does give a 24 November 1967 date as the date of activation for the old 6th Division, it's a muddle for sure, it say the 11th Inf Bde which was already in Nam was maybe to be returned to Campbell or Schofield, but they redesignated the one Brigade as the 4th Brigade, 6th Infantry Division.

 

I Dugout my Army Division linage series, you know I forgot I have this big think book. And we see, that the Vietnam Era 6th Infantry Division has a 24 November 1967 activation date, and gives the Division as having a 2nd 3rd and 4th Brigade, so there that missing 1st Brigade which has to have been the 11th, but you know the Army I mean the 11th Inf Bde even if it was envisioned to be incorporated into the 6th Div whenever the Army decided to activate it seems silly, right. Now the 6th Div is finally activated, why the the 4th BDE, just give it the normal 1st 2nd and 3rd Brigades! This is all kinda like the Americal right, you Sean even talked about it once, as in these separate Bridades incorporated into the Americal should of been simply retited, with I gather the senior in country one, the 196th retitled 1st Brigade. And all that muddle is explained in the above CHM link.

 

Now, I found out finally the Brigade that was at Schofield, it was that 4th Brigade, 6th Infantry Division, the other two, the 2nd and the 3rd was at Campbell, the 4th Bde was activated at Campbell, and presumably sent out some time in early 1968, where it was inactivated when the whole 6th Inf Div was.

[patches]

And more period info on the Sight Seeing Sixth.

 

This tiny article from the October 1967 ARMY GREEN BOOK.

 

 

Now see that January date, that confuses stuff even more right. My take is that being that this book had to have gone to print in September 1967 so it could be delivered to posts Army wide, and Reserve Component installations across America by October, is that that January date must of been of either two things, either it was officially projected that the Division was to start being formed up then with units being activated all at once, or either January was the projected date the division would be completely formed up, with elmts being gradually activated, starting earlier than January 1968.

 

As we know, seeing the November 1967 reactivation date, it may of been a combination of the two. It's noteworthy that the article does not mention either the 11th Inf Bde (Sep) or that divisional elmts are to be assigned to Hawaii, it mentions only Campbell.

[patches]

Whoa-ho, found another exact shirt, from the same vintage clothing vendor. Same name, patches etc, this time without the drawing on the collar, and with Sgt E-5 stripes. The strips are merrowed edge, hmm, we do know that merrowed edge insignia started to be made for the Army in late 1966-early 1967, just that it's more commonly seen being worn starting late 68 on.

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/302187618338?clk_rvr_id=1161737600684&rmvSB=true

 

Comments one and all!

[Martinjmpr]

The very first online find for this totally obscure and very hard to find Info on unit.

 

The 6th Inf Div is on the books as being reactivated in November 1967 and assigned to Ft Campbell Kentucky, with elmts eventually assigned to Schofield Barracks Hawaii, probably one of it's Brigades, but don't ask us which one, finding any hard info is like looking for the proverbial needle in a haystack for some odd reason. I got a 6th Div shirt of my own a Pfc and a Class A 4th Div vet, a Sp/4, so they are out there, but I,m imagining scarce. But this is the first I seen online so I just had to save it.

 

It's from some kind of Russian, EBAY???? Site, so don't know how long page will show, did save a couple of the images for Forum prosperity however. The rank and BOS is curious, by the photo it seems to be drawn on? so there is that possibility that the rank and BOS are not original to it, or maybe it's that one odd oddball that one see's every so often and the collar insignia is original to it, but in any event the shirt itself I say is the real deal.

 

6th inf div 1968.jpg$_1.JPG67.JPGk1.JPG

 

http://www.postrex.com/US-Army-Vietnam-1ST-CAVALRY-SATEEN-FATIGUE-COMBAT-SHIRT-1960-Vtg-301936290319-ebay

 

That inked-on rank and BOS looks terrible. It's hard to imagine an actual Army officer wearing something like that except maybe in the field and even then, I'd be skeptical. Is that supposed to be crossed rifles? At first I thought maybe someone was trying to do an SF branch insignia (crossed arrows) but of course that didn't exist until 1985.

 

[patches]

 

That inked-on rank and BOS looks terrible. It's hard to imagine an actual Army officer wearing something like that except maybe in the field and even then, I'd be skeptical. Is that supposed to be crossed rifles? At first I thought maybe someone was trying to do an SF branch insignia (crossed arrows) but of course that didn't exist until 1985.

 

Now seeing this second example with the stripes, same name same insignia's, shows what I was thinking, that this first one had for some reason, it''s stripes removed, with some person messing around with it and drawing these sloppy bars and crossed rifles on it.

[seanmc1114]

And more period info on the Sight Seeing Sixth.

 

This tiny article from the October 1967 ARMY GREEN BOOK.

 

6th Division Vietnam era0003.jpg

 

Now see that January date, that confuses stuff even more right. My take is that being that this book had to have gone to print in September 1967 so it could be delivered to posts Army wide, and Reserve Component installations across America by October, is that that January date must of been of either two things, either it was officially projected that the Division was to start being formed up then with units being activated all at once, or either January was the projected date the division would be completely formed up, with elmts being gradually activated, starting earlier than January 1968.

 

As we know, seeing the November 1967 reactivation date, it may of been a combination of the two. It's noteworthy that the article does not mention either the 11th Inf Bde (Sep) or that divisional elmts are to be assigned to Hawaii, it mentions only Campbell.

I googled and found this info from an online book. The change from the January 1968 activation to November 1967 seems to be due to the fact that the 6th was replacing the 101st at Fort Campbell when the latter deployed to Vietnam and the 101st's deployment got moved ahead a couple of months.

[seanmc1114]

Part 2 of the previous post. This does offer a slightly different perspective on what we've previously read about the 6th during the Vietnam War.

[12thengr]

Fascinating! Thank you patches and seanmc. Now if we could just get a weigh-in from a veteran of this short lived unit.

[patches]

Fantastic find sean. Thank You 12theng.

 

Hmm no mention as we see of the 4th Bde at Schoflied.

[patches]

Here's another reference to the 6th Division, this of an officer assigned at one point to the division's Recon unit, the 4th of the 9th Cav.

 

 

[patches]

Just found another Sight Seeing Sixth fatique shirt from the war, a 1st Infantry Division Vietnam Vet now assigned to the 6th Infantry Division, non Infantry, last name looks like Glasgow (Image was real small so it was hard to see tapes clearly, and enlarging image helped, but not by much as we see), In any event, an EM, worn at Campbell or Schofield. This is unfortunately the only image of the shirt, it was a item sold on Ebay long time ago, and just this one image of it was left over floating around on the web, so we can't see what rank Glasgow was.

 

[patches]

Just remembered this former member of the 6th Inf Div, Major Billy G. Cook, a 1st Cav Vet, Chem Corps, the Divisional Chemical Officer of the 6th Infantry Division in 1967, probably late 1967 into 1968.

 

[patches]

Just found another Sight Seeing Sixth fatique shirt from the war, a 1st Infantry Division Vietnam Vet now assigned to the 6th Infantry Division, non Infantry, last name looks like Glasgow (Image was real small so it was hard to see tapes clearly, and enlarging image helped, but not by much as we see), In any event, an EM, worn at Campbell or Schofield. This is unfortunately the only image of the shirt, it was a item sold on Ebay long time ago, and just this one image of it was left over floating around on the web, so we can't see what rank Glasgow was.

 

phpuoNfRAPM.jpg

Hmm maybe it's BLASBOW??? Do see that a surname Blasbow exists.

[patches]

Fantastic. Grabbed a shot of that shirt I mentioned in the first post, got it like in 2007 at a vintage clothes store in Manhattan, got lucky that afternon, these places ate hit and miss for good original stuff, a Army-Navy Store type shirt, with Stamped OD Web Tapes this time, a Pfc Berkowitz of the division.

[patches]

And another find, a 101 1st Brigade of the 101 no doubt, a Non Infantry Vet Spec 5, name Sharp.