Dallas Style Observer

[skypilot6670]

Picked this up today at the Lakeland, FL gunshow.

[CliffP]

Please don't shoot the messenger but I have deep, deep reservations about the legitimacy of that badge.

 

[skypilot6670]

Thanks cliff

[skypilot6670]

Am trying to get some better images . The normal things I look for to distinguish a known Dallas faker from one I am considering purchasing are all present in this wing .The finding has a barrel that extends out of the two supports.The pin is brass,the beading is well defined and extends beyond the wing tip,the US is definetly gold and applied not cast.The wing tip is bent up as is so common in Dallas style.And there is verdigris on the findings.I think some better photos may help one way ore another. Your opinions are valuable and appreciated.Thank you Fraternally Mike

[skypilot6670]

Interesting footnote.The feathers appear to the same die as Patrick's straight sided shield and the same as the one used by a famous wing copier to make the mold for his Dallas style observer.Am waiting for my son to help me size the photos to put some better quality images up.All input is appreciated , Iam here to learn and discuss wings Thanks again Cliff I greatly respect your knowledge and am greatful for your input. Fraternally Mike

[skypilot6670]

Thanks Again Cliff for the help.Returned the wing this morning. Fraternally Mike

[CliffP]

Well thank you Mike. It was very kind of you to say that.

 

I'm surprised that no one else joined in the conversation but you've done the right thing by returning that badge to the dealer who sold it to you and you'll never regret it.

 

If you don't already have a soft cover copy of United States Army Air Service Aviator Wings - The "Dallas" Style Wings by Robert Pandis, send me a PM with your address and I'll send you a copy that I have with my compliments.

 

Kind regards,

 

Cliff

[pfrost]

I would have responded earlier if I had been near a computer. Frankly, I would have wanted to see additional photos, although my initial impression was in line with what Cliff said. Still, I do see some things that would make this wing worthy of a closer look with better pictures in better lighting.

 

The feather patterns don't really match the typical BB&B and Eisnstadt feathering --to me, they seem to be a sort of hybrid between the 3 feather pattern and the multi-feather pattern don't they? These also don't match the straight sided shield wings, which have a different shape and feathering pattern altogether.

 

The "US" is wrong for the Eisenstadt, but closer to the BB&B. The beads seem ok, as does the pin.

 

I believe that there are generally 3 or 4 different types of fakes of the Dallas wing pattern out there. This looks like it matches this one pretty closely.

 

Probably a good call to send them back, but I would have liked some better pictures myself. Sorry1

 

P

[skypilot6670]

Thanks Patrick. Fraternally Mike

[skypilot6670]

Patrick the closest feather pattern I could find were , a known copiers Dallas Observer and your straight sided.I defer to your statement that your straight side does not match and accept you as the better judge of that .As I stated this wing met all the test that I was framiliar with.But I' only owned 1 Dallas style and that is the only one I've ever handled so my knowledge is very limited .Hunting for these and trying to navigate the hazards is great fun and very exciting. Thanks again and if it shows up next April at the Lakeland show I'll get more pictures. Fraternally Mike

[pfrost]

Here is a good link to better pictures of the "spade" shield wing:

 

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/57506-a-comparison-of-wwi-wings/page-2?hl=+dallas%20+wings%20+fake

 

I don't want to get into the "its a fake, no its not" issue with the spade shield wing, but you can see the details don't match yours.

 

Here is a composite I made a few years ago, of some of the Dallas variations. The top are all "good" with the bottom two being known fakes of the House of Swords variety.

 

A search of this forum for Dallas wings will reveal a great deal of wonderful information that you should review.

 

 

 

[skypilot6670]

Thanks Patrick your help is greatly appreciated. Fraternally Mike

[CliffP]

Mike,

 

As you see by Patrick's excellent posts to this thread there is a lot to be learned about original "Dallas" style wings; however, with the hope of eliminating any doubt that might exist in your mind about the badge you purchased last Saturday here is what I actually think about it.

 

I strongly suspect that badge is a recreation currently being made by a firm in Indiana. The company produces both half-wing ($150 retail) and duel wing ($300 retail) patterns. . . and the shape of the feathers on the wings will often differ in appearance. While I do not have any photos of one example of their half-wing version, pictured below are front and rear photos of one of their duel wing patterns.

 

One additional matter. Collectors often agree to disagree; therefore, with regard to the pin on the back of that badge. Consider visiting the website Aviation Wings And Badges Of The World Wars owned by Bob Schwartz to familiarize yourself with some of the various pins attached to a good number of the legitimate "Dallas" style wings illustrated there to draw your own conclusions.

 

http://www.ww2wings.com/wings/wwi/us/us.shtml

 

Kind regards,

 

Cliff

[skypilot6670]

A very big thank you to all for the generous help.Cliff I am very glad that I returned the wing.I beleave it is a fake.A very good fake by someone who knows Dallas wings .One trait of Dallas wings I believe is the wings left tip would get snagged on material,say an overcoat and it would get bent up or broken off.This wing had that bend.And many other tells, or indicators of a real wing is. As we collectors become better at detecting fraud the crooks become better at fraud.And one more observation about , our chosen hobby.Rare wings can routinely sell for some very high prices,this is a powerful motivation for fraud.But with the help of people like yourself and the other senior wing collectors on this forum , the damage done by the criminals is lessened.Unfortunately Iam not wealthy , I can afford one or two high end wings a year.You my friend helped me out,stopped me from making a mistake and I am greatful. Thank you Fraternally Mike