mrwocco Posted October 31, 2016 Share #51 Posted October 31, 2016 Just wanting to add to Jagjetta's posting. It did occur to me that it was possibly Belgian issued, I dont recall where I read it but the Belgians had ordered coats from Jacob Reed & Sons and also from the British to supplement their coat shortages. Some modifications included replacing the buttons and sewing on unit patches or symbols. But since the coat posted had all US buttons and collar devices I initially disregarded the fact that It was Belgian, the owner may have just reverted it back to look US issued. I know this would be a horrible source for reference but in the series "The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles" when a young Indy was in the Belgian army he is seen wearing a US Army style coat. But here is a photo of an actual Belgian MLE coat that is of US manufacture. It was saved from a google search with no further info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurel Posted October 31, 2016 Share #52 Posted October 31, 2016 "Well that explains a lot! Thanks John, for clearing up how US service coats ended up in Belgium. I wonder if we were selling them all of our obsolete service coats ... hence the 1913 dated contract tag?" Hi , I don't think that all the obsolete service coats were sold in Belgium We can find a lot of field gear or US uniforms abandonned by the US troops in the north of France and Belgium . For example, on the famous picture of the 11th Eng. prisoneer in Cambrai (November 1917) we can see a man wearing a 1909 service coat . The service coat used by the belgian army was modifed ( belgian button, shoulder pads, collar badge.. ) I'm sure that my service coat dated 1913 was wearing by a US soldier (not modified ) Regards Aurelien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyCanteen Posted October 31, 2016 Share #53 Posted October 31, 2016 I think it is safe to say that there are two equally plausible ways earlier service coats could make it overseas. Some were sold, and some were worn over by the AEF. In the early days of the US participation, supplies were low. They had to use whatever was on hand at the nearest QMC depot. Wool service coats in general, were in very very short supply during the winter of 1917/1918. So much so, that Congress even became involved in questioning reports that men in the cantonments were wearing thin cotton uniforms instead of wool coats. The Army couldn't equip the stateside forces with proper woolen uniforms that winter, and I believe it was said (during that period) that they needed every coat they could get to send to the AEF. So at least many older coats were probably in circulation that winter at least, when it comes to the AEF. RC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurel Posted November 1, 2016 Share #54 Posted November 1, 2016 Early uniform .. 28th Infantry in 1918 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurel Posted November 1, 2016 Share #55 Posted November 1, 2016 or 1917 ( campaign hat on the havresack, leggin M1910, early scrabbar, early cartridge belt and french gaz mask. ) but no british SBR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagjetta Posted November 1, 2016 Share #56 Posted November 1, 2016 But here is a photo of an actual Belgian MLE coat that is of US manufacture. It was saved from a google search with no further info. That tunic was sold by AGM in 2007, though it had passed through several hands before then. It was picked, originally, by Bill Combs. At the time, the seller thought some one had stripped a US tunic and sewn on Belgian insignia in an attempt to create a Belgian WWI tunic. It turns out, however, it was a legitimate Belgian-issued tunic, replete with Belgian issue stamps on the pocket material. I agree with Aurel, that his tunic is probably a US left-behind example. From a colletor's point of view, there would be very little reason to strip a Belgian re-issued tunic and resew American buttons. That would be converting a $600+ tunic into a ~$65 tunic! That said, I do remember handling a Belgian reissued tunic (issue stamps on the lining and converted collar) that still retained US buttons...but for the life of me, I haven't been able to locate the photos of it! I will keep digging to satisfy my own curiosity, but lest this thread gets diverted into a discussion of Belgian tunics rather than the superb study of US tunics that WWInerd began, I will readily concede that Aurel's tunic is exactly what it appears to be--a US tunic with a tag that records a 1913-dated contract. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrenchRat Posted November 7, 2016 Share #57 Posted November 7, 2016 Good day all... I thought I might chime in regarding the Transitional 1909/1911 service coat with a pair of examples of my own. First I have here a 1909 coat has its collar updated to the 1911 spec, however, this collar was pierced, professionally I might add, with 4 sewn holes for the short-lived double disk arrangement. The modification to the collar looks a little rough though. The coat still retains the bellowed pockets... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrenchRat Posted November 7, 2016 Share #58 Posted November 7, 2016 Collar and pocket details regarding this coat. Note the well sewn holes for the 4 collar disks, the rather poorly done collar and the retained bellowed pockets... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrenchRat Posted November 7, 2016 Share #59 Posted November 7, 2016 The second coat I have to offer is no stranger to this forum. This coat has been a subject in several posts when in the hands of the former owner before making its way to my collection.... This coat had been updated fully to the 1911 specs, having the collar and the pocket modifications. However, the coat was, in my opinion, poorly updated leaving the owner to make his own holes for the disks. There are at least 4 holes in the collar, but only two pierced the outer and inner surfaces of the collar. And they are in no way, symmetrical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrenchRat Posted November 7, 2016 Share #60 Posted November 7, 2016 Collar detail. My apologies for the poor lighting. Not clear here is the asymmetrical layout of the disks. But what is clear, is the additional hole in the collar; one that is not completely thru the collar. Also of note is the collar modification that appears to be the result of the removal of the "fall" portion of the collar. The junction of the collar to the coat is better that the one seen in the previous coat... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrenchRat Posted November 7, 2016 Share #61 Posted November 7, 2016 Here are the flattened pockets... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrenchRat Posted November 7, 2016 Share #62 Posted November 7, 2016 And for me, the most interesting details of this coat are the halos from the discharge stripe and service stripe on the left sleeve. And above all, (tho not photographed) is the halo of rank chevrons on the right sleeve only. So this is most certainly a coat worn thru 1918-1919. Brian, I hope these coats are a good addition to your post... Glenn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurel Posted November 7, 2016 Share #63 Posted November 7, 2016 Very nice tunics ! Here a picture of one of my regimental long card . We can see a private with a 1909 tunic not modifed . This picture was taken in November 1918. Regards Aurel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrenchRat Posted November 7, 2016 Share #64 Posted November 7, 2016 Very nice tunics ! Here a picture of one of my regimental long card . We can see a private with a 1909 tunic not modifed . This picture was taken in November 1918. Regards Aurel What a great photo! What a great coat as well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrenchRat Posted November 7, 2016 Share #65 Posted November 7, 2016 Very nice tunics ! Here a picture of one of my regimental long card . We can see a private with a 1909 tunic not modifed . This picture was taken in November 1918. Regards Aurel What a great photo! What a great coat as well... I'd really like to find a 1909 double disk coat, such as the one displayed by member Dragoon, one of these days... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
world war I nerd Posted November 8, 2016 Author Share #66 Posted November 8, 2016 Glen & Aurel, Thanks for adding images of the 1909 Service Coats updated to the 1911 specifications. It would be nice to one day find some actual documentation (if any documentation exists) that explains when, how and by whom the modifications were made. Nevertheless, there are plenty of period photographs showing that the hybrid 1909/1911 service coats were worn from early 1917 (and possibly earlier) through to at least mid-1919. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurel Posted November 13, 2016 Share #67 Posted November 13, 2016 Hi I've found this photo on facebook (WW1 Colourised photos ) The legend say : 37th US Div in trainning with Australian in North of France The Corporal on the front wears a 1909 jacket not modifed Regards Aurel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurel Posted November 13, 2016 Share #68 Posted November 13, 2016 Hello, This is my "1911 service coat " with anomaly Pointed cuff, patch pocket , standing collar and rimmeless buttons Regards Aurel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
world war I nerd Posted November 14, 2016 Author Share #69 Posted November 14, 2016 Aurel, Great photo of Yanks and Aussies! Can you tell if the collar was altered on the above service coat? It looks kind of like the collar was changed in the posted photo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
world war I nerd Posted November 17, 2016 Author Share #70 Posted November 17, 2016 Another one of Aurel's 1909-1911 Service Coats. This example features patch pockets and a standing collar, but still retains the pointed cuffs. It looks as if the collar may have been altered, but it's difficult to tell from the photo. Therefore it could be either a 1909 Service Coat that was converted or upgraded to the 1911 specifications or a 1911 "transitional" Service Coat to which leftover sleeves bearing pointed cuffs were incorporated. Sadly the coat has no contract label which might have indicated if the garment was manufactured in 1909 or 1911. Photos courtesy of the Aurel Gobet collection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
world war I nerd Posted November 17, 2016 Author Share #71 Posted November 17, 2016 Close up of the standing collar and one of the pointed cuffs ... Photos courtesy of the Aurel Gobet collection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
everforward Posted April 22, 2019 Share #72 Posted April 22, 2019 1917 Service Coat Specification No. 1285, adopted on December 4, 1917 Superseded by Specification No.1356 on August 28, 1918 Specifications for the 1917 Service Coat were revised in December of 1917. The only change that was made to this specification was that a cheaper mercerized cotton thread was substituted for the more expensive silk thread that had been called for in all the previous service coat specifications. Otherwise, in every other respect, the Specification No. 1285 Service Coat was identical to that of the Specification No. 1268 Service Coat. Photo No. 12: This 1917 Service Coat’s contract label proclaimed that it is of the Specification No. 1285 variety, which had been assembled with mercerized cotton thread. Note the single row of stitching on the lower cuff of each sleeve. I just picked up a M1917 Service Coat as described here, spec. # 1285, Jos. Susskind mfr. and dated April 1918.....single row of stitching at the cuff. I wanted to bring attention to the buttons on this coat and get opinions...it looks as though the buttons down the front have been replaced with a similar variety to what is on the pockets and epulates (sp?) but I wanted to let everyone see this one, and get a time period on the bigger buttons.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
everforward Posted April 22, 2019 Share #73 Posted April 22, 2019 SSI on coat... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
everforward Posted April 22, 2019 Share #74 Posted April 22, 2019 Buttons on front..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
everforward Posted April 22, 2019 Share #75 Posted April 22, 2019 Underside of button.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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