Radioman badge?

[Captainofthe7th]

My Uncle was a radioman on a B17 from 1948 to 1949 in the Panama Canal zone. I don't know too much about his service, but he joined before the switch to an independent Air Force and he said he got out in 1950 as a Corporal.

 

At any rate, he was a radio operator and does not have his wings. In 1948, what kind of wings would a radio operator have had?

 

Thanks,

 

Rob

[Bluehawk]

Just offering an opinion, somewhat educated.

 

Here is a link to the known USAF wings.

 

http://www.b24bestweb.com/b24bestweb-Wings.htm

 

I don't see any specifically for Radio Operator. The USAF was founded in 1947, so he would have been part of that from 1948-50, his years in uniform.

 

He may have been officially called "Flight Crew" or something of that nature, but as a Corporal (unless he had been busted) it is unlikely he would have earned Crew Chief wings in peace time.

 

Is there anything else you can share about his military service record?

[Captainofthe7th]

Here is ALL i know:

 

Maurice Hubert, Radio Operator on a B17 from 1948 to 49 in Panama and then 49 to 50 in Washington. 319th Fighter Squadron, 6th US Army Air Force. He was discharged a Corporal..

 

He recalls "lighting bolts" on the wings?

 

That's about it.

 

Rob

[Bluehawk]

Here is ALL i know:

 

Maurice Hubert, Radio Operator on a B17 from 1948 to 49 in Panama and then 49 to 50 in Washington. 319th Fighter Squadron, 6th US Army Air Force. He was discharged a Corporal..

 

He recalls "lighting bolts" on the wings?

 

That's about it.

 

Rob

 

After quite a lot of searching, this is the only direct reference I can find from any authoritative source about any wings concurrent with your father's years of service (1948-50), which in any way mention something resembling a "lightning bolt"...

t.f. Air Force Association magazine article

 

"The shield became the background for other aviation badges. Navigators and bombardiers shared a new set with a thunderbolt in the center. Some claimed that the new device looked like a bug, but headquarters held firm. Before long, the old bombardier rating became obsolete. By the time the senior and master ratings came in, the badge was pretty well accepted."

 

So, if your dad was a Navigator (which is someone who does use the radio), then he would have had, in those years, wings with a thunderbolt.

 

Only thing I'm unsure of, from the description you've given, is that in peacetime Navigators are usually officers, not enlisted Corporals.

 

I hope this will clarify something of use to you.

[Paul S]

Unless he was a rated gunner, he most likely would have worn a set of wings something like these--they are called "Aircrew":

[Captainofthe7th]

Thanks guys, I'll show him a pair of air crew and a pair of Navigator wings i have and see what he likes better

 

Rob

[Wailuna]

Not wings, but this may be the "lightening bolt" insignia your uncle actually remembers:

 

This is the USAAF insignia for enlisted technical specialists in communications. It was a cloth patch, worn on the right cuff of uniform jackets and shirts. It was introduced during WWII and was worn after the war by the USAAF and later by the USAF until it was eliminated in the 1950s. Link here to see one of these on a USAF uniform ca. 1950.

[Captainofthe7th]

Thanks Wailuna. Here are my "assumptions" so far:

 

When the USAF broke off from the regular army in 1947, regular army ranks remained with the USAF until 1950 when they switched to the "modern"ranks.

 

My Uncle probably had Air Crew wings with a the Tech specialist arm rating Wailuna posted (I thought of this when he mentioned lighting bolts as well).

 

We'll see what happens

 

Rob

[Bluehawk]

Looks like we're narrowing things down better now...

 

I didn't remember having seen any wings, per se, with lightning/thunderbolt... but then, there's a lot I haven't seen yet.

 

Good luck.

[pfrost]

I suspect that these were what your uncle wore. These are the navigator/aircraft observer wing of the USAF authorized in 1947, which would cover his time in the service. Also note the lightning bolts in the center.

 

As for the radio operator part, I suspect that what is confusing is that by this time, much of the navigation was being done by radio beacons.

 

That would be my guess.

 

Patrick

[Wailuna]

...I suspect that these were what your uncle wore. These are the navigator/aircraft observer wing of the USAF authorized in 1947...

A corporal wore rated Navigator wings?

[Bluehawk]

A corporal wore rated Navigator wings?

That's a question I've had too... I'll try to sort that out this morning.

 

I know in wartime enlisted guys did do some stuff normally done by officers, on airplanes anyway. But, I just am not sure about getting wings for it. Anything is possible though, as we know.

[Captainofthe7th]

Another update...

 

In 1948, the USAF rank chevrons were insituted with grades of Private, Corporal, Sergeant, Staff Sergeant and Master/First Sergeant. It's in the link Wailuna posted I believe. So it's making MORE sense now as far as Corporal goes.

 

Rob