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Sometimes You Lose


Wharfmaster
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I found this WW2 Purple Heart at a large antique show a number of years ago.

 

It was in good condition, hand engraving looked ok and the price was right. That's where the story begins.

 

After I got home, it didn't take long to discover that it was not a posthumous WW2 award. OK.

I found a man with this name that lived in the area that was a WW1 vet. so I had a friend look for an Award Card

at the National Archives. No man with this name to be found so not a WW1 award.

Had to be a WW2 WIA Heart.

 

Believe it or not, 13 men with this name enlisted during WW2. If I remember correctly, I found at least 3 officers with this name also.

 

I was able to find one soldier with this name that returned to the States as a medical patient aboard a

Troop Transport in March of 1945. Good chance it's him. Can't find another WIA soldier with this name. However,

I'll never know for sure.

 

Sometimes you lose.

 

 

W

 

post-525-0-22929600-1455338591.jpg

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So, do you feel you paid a Posthumous price for a WIA PH? That engraving looks fantastic.

Fortunately, the price was less than the value of a WIA Purple Heart. So, I didn't lose badly. I was however hoping for a big win.

 

 

W

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I feel your pain. I bought a PH from a person who listed it as a KIA in the Pacific(5th AF). I saw a couple guys KIA with that name, but took his word for it. Well, he bought it from an auction in CA, and the PH guy was from the East Coast. So, there was no way to confirm the true owner. Much less, it could be a WIA.

 

After all my research, I narrowed it down to one possible KIA name listed by tracking down the family of the other KIAs with that name. Let me tell you, it was awkward and exhausting. I dispelled it was the Pacific guy, and found the other 2 families of the other AAF guys too. They even sent photos of their medals, which was very kind. The other 3 were Navy guys, so that was moot.

 

At long last, I have the 1st ID soldier, Alabama resident, KIA in Europe and earned a Silver Star. But it could be a WIA. :(

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If someone at NARA could page through the 13 names I see for your soldier, I think you could actually solve this mystery. But, they make it so cumbersome to do research these days.

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What caused you to determine it was not a KIA purple heart ? No one with that name was KIA during ww2?

Right, no KIAs with this name during WW2 and no WIAs for WW1.

 

 

W

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If someone at NARA could page through the 13 names I see for your soldier, I think you could actually solve this mystery. But, they make it so cumbersome to do research these days.

May be costly too.

 

W

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If you want to submit all the requests in one email, and then tell them you are looking for a PH recipient, they may decide to narrow down the research in order to lessen their obligation to have the files available to you.

S

 

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I found a man with this name that lived in the area that was a WW1 vet. so I had a friend look for an Award Card

at the National Archives. No man with this name to be found so not a WW1 award.

Had to be a WW2 WIA Heart.

 

 

 

The WWI card file in St. Louis is not 100% complete. About 5% of the cards are missing or misfiled. So your medal might indeed have been a late award to the local WWI vet.

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This win/lose idea come off to me as very unseemly to put it mildly and reflects poorly on this forum which is supposed to remember and venerate the service of those who stand ready to protect us. Wether the recipient lived or died should not be the determination of the “value” you or anyone can place on the medal, the fact that the veteran shed his blood for the ideals that this nation stands for is lost in the discussion when collectors/care takers get "wrapped around the axel” on the $ amount that they paid or expect to sell the medal for when they “move it on” or their family disposes with their collection after they depart this life.

 

This is not a rant to put people down or to build my ego up at the expense of the other reputation . I’m sure there are those who will view my comments as such but the discussion takes on the appearance of a “Pink Elephant in the Room”; many see the comments at the beginning as a unflattering view of why we collect these awards, don’t care for it but are afraid to approach the subject for fear of offending. That said lets try and be less focused on the monetary cost/value of an award that required a sacrifice of the veteran and just as importantly the family of the veteran.

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As in my case, I think Wharfmaster is upset he can't narrow down the exact recipient. We all spend hours (and dollars) researching in order to celebrate the man's life and sacrifice.

 

When it comes to discussing collecting costs, I hope this doesn't become off limits, as it is part of collecting. Money changes hands with every grouping, patch, and medal. It's just what it is.

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The WWI card file in St. Louis is not 100% complete. About 5% of the cards are missing or misfiled. So your medal might indeed have been a late award to the local WWI vet.

 

Unfortunately this idea only further muddies things....If this were a 1932 issued PH, than it would be easier to nail down....To say it could be a later issued WW1 WIA PH, than the trail to tracking this down would be a daunting task to say the least...Bodes

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While I can understand that it might be disappointing to not be able to narrow down the recipient, I can also understand where BigJohn is coming from. While it may not have been meant in the way it was stated, I think we need to think before we post. For someone to state that they were hoping for a “big win” (a KIA item) comes across wrong. A father, brother, son lost their life so it truly is not a “big win” for anyone. We need to respect the sacrifice. Maybe the sentence was meant to state the “big win” was being able to find the recipient but it did not come across as such.

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The WWI card file in St. Louis is not 100% complete. About 5% of the cards are missing or misfiled. So your medal might indeed have been a late award to the local WWI vet.

Thanks Adam.

 

It is still possible that the PH was awarded to the local WW1 vet. However, to date, I have found little information on him.

 

Because so many men with this name served in the Army, sadly, we will probably never be certain exactly who received this PH.

Several men with this name may have been wounded, not just one.

 

Every so often, I search again in the hope that some new info surfaces.

 

 

Wharf

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While I can understand that it might be disappointing to not be able to narrow down the recipient, I can also understand where BigJohn is coming from. While it may not have been meant in the way it was stated, I think we need to think before we post. For someone to state that they were hoping for a “big win” (a KIA item) comes across wrong. A father, brother, son lost their life so it truly is not a “big win” for anyone. We need to respect the sacrifice. Maybe the sentence was meant to state the “big win” was being able to find the recipient but it did not come across as such.

 

I lost an Uncle during WW2 and have his posthumously awarded PH....In all fairness to the OP I have no problems whatsoever with the way he worded his post....In fact when I read it, I didn't feel any insensitivity until after having had it pointed out....We need to remember the context of what a person writes does not necessarily reflect his inner most feelings and subsequent intentions....Bodes

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Unfortunately this idea only further muddies things....If this were a 1932 issued PH, than it would be easier to nail down....To say it could be a later issued WW1 WIA PH, than the trail to tracking this down would be a daunting task to say the least...Bodes

Thanks Bodes.

 

I agree that being WW2 vintage engraving makes the research far more difficult.

 

I have a 1947-49 script engraved Purple Heart in my collection to a WW1 vet. I had no problem finding the award card that

confirmed he received an unnumbered PH in 1947. A late claim but not the latest I have seen.

 

You just never know.

 

 

Wharf

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