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#1 Pointedcuffs

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Posted 29 December 2015 - 03:29 PM

Does anyone know why we are going to be forced to become OVMS members in order to get tables for the 2017 SOS? Even spouses and helpers have to hold a membership. 



#2 MAW

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Posted 29 December 2015 - 04:01 PM

Your concerns are not totally valid....

My understanding is that about that time, all table holders and helpers will have to be OVMS members....but wives/spouses can still have family badges.

#3 Pointedcuffs

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Posted 29 December 2015 - 04:07 PM

Yes, I just looked at the OVMS website for memberships and see spouses are included in the membership. That does not answer my question though.



#4 Shenkursk

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Posted 29 December 2015 - 06:18 PM

Rob, I don't believe spouses are included.  Will check for you to be sure.  Could be I screwed up when posting the update to the website.


Edited by Shenkursk, 29 December 2015 - 06:20 PM.


#5 MAW

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Posted 29 December 2015 - 06:19 PM

I am not an officer or in speaking in any official capacity....but I believe it has something to do with accountability....hopefully cutting down on theft potential....etc.

Technically speaking, OVMS is a club.....people can be kicked out for for various behaviors...felonies, etc. people can get around that by giving passes to anyone they choose...but forcing everyone to be a member makes it more difficult.

That's just my recollection of the discussion.....

#6 Shenkursk

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Posted 29 December 2015 - 08:22 PM

I am not an officer or in speaking in any official capacity....but I believe it has something to do with accountability....hopefully cutting down on theft potential....etc.

Technically speaking, OVMS is a club.....people can be kicked out for for various behaviors...felonies, etc. people can get around that by giving passes to anyone they choose...but forcing everyone to be a member makes it more difficult.

That's just my recollection of the discussion.....

 

Absolutely correct, it is an accountability issue.  Most of the problems we have had at SOS honestly happen right at the beginning during dealer set-up time.  No way to prevent that entirely, but eliminating the roaming herds of anonymous 'helpers' will be beneficial to everyone.  Basically, we want everyone there to be a member of the club, wearing a badge with their actual real name on it.  OR, a member's spouse or minor child.



#7 Pointedcuffs

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Posted 29 December 2015 - 08:45 PM

If we could not keep track of people not wearing show badges whats going to make wearing club badges any different? I completely understand the problems that are dealt with but having to pay extra for a badge on top of table fees is very upsetting.



#8 Shenkursk

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Posted 29 December 2015 - 10:51 PM

If we could not keep track of people not wearing show badges whats going to make wearing club badges any different? I completely understand the problems that are dealt with but having to pay extra for a badge on top of table fees is very upsetting.

 

I'm not in charge of security, and can only relate what I pick up at the meetings, but the security guys honestly feel that this is necessary for a variety of reasons.  And, it is a done deal, so debating the merits of the policy may be cathartic, but it is the course that the OVMS has decided to follow.

 

I'm sorry that this has upset you Rob, and it would not be Show-of-Shows without you there.  (I'm being completely serious, that's half the fun of the show - catching up with friends, even friends who are mad at the club.)   PM, email, or call me, and I will be happy to look into your specific situation.  

 

Jeff



#9 Pointedcuffs

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Posted 30 December 2015 - 05:32 AM

Jeff,

 

 This is Mario Martini and not Robb Kay. I was just trying to find out why the need for added memberships/"fees" in order to have a table at the show. I appreciate your replies.

 

Mario



#10 Shenkursk

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Posted 30 December 2015 - 08:39 AM

Sorry Mario!  For some reason, I thought Pointedcuffs was Rob.. but the same sentiment applies - wouldn't want to miss you at the SOS, and I am sorry that you are unhappy with the new OVMS policy.  Feel free to get in touch if you want to discuss any specific concerns further.



#11 thecolonelscache

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Posted 30 December 2015 - 03:51 PM

Jeff,

     This is Robb. Mario and I were discussing this and I admit I was rather upset with the new policy. I am not aware of any other show that does this and I do not think forcing folks to join a club is the correct answer to improving security. I am pretty sure you will see many of the same "hoard" with borrowed club badges and family passes now. But, like you say, grousing over a "done deal" may be good for the soul but is pretty useless in this case. Gee, I do feel better now.......

      Thanks,

-Robb



#12 Survival

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Posted 30 December 2015 - 04:05 PM

I am sure there are many people on that waiting list that would jump thru hoops for a chance for a table there.



#13 CNY Militaria

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Posted 30 December 2015 - 05:02 PM

For the nominal fee of membership, you gain access to the greatest military show in the world, ahead of everyone else. I would say that is a small price to pay no matter who you are! Change can also be a good thing too; As a first time dealer at SOS last year who had an item STOLEN from my table, I am all about security now. Just my opinion of course...

 

Justin



#14 thecolonelscache

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Posted 30 December 2015 - 05:18 PM

Well, we love the show and the opportunity to talk face to face with our customers and dealer friends so going to the show is not an issue. If joining the OVMS increases security, I will be thrilled. See you at the show.

-Robb



#15 unclegrumpy

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Posted 30 December 2015 - 05:25 PM

One thing has not been mentioned, is the table prices are less for members.  Currently, if you buy two tables, you will save enough for a years membership.



#16 tarbridge

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Posted 30 December 2015 - 05:29 PM

The more successful club shows are starting to use this very concept.

#17 Shenkursk

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Posted 30 December 2015 - 06:04 PM

The more successful club shows are starting to use this very concept.

 

Correct.  It is policy at TMCA now, and has been at OGCA for as long as I know of.  Security is only one aspect.  There are others that have been touched on here, as well as insurance, legal, etc.  Will it solve all of our security problems?  Absolutely not.  Bad guys are bad guys, and they will do bad things.  BUT, it does give us a string or two to pull when none would be available otherwise.

 

I was personally involved in a situation at the front desk at 2015 SOS where a club member was turned away and removed from the premises under police escort.  Why?  He had been previously caught red-handed in a theft the previous year.  How did we know?  He was trying to renew his membership so that he could get in on Thursday.  Having flown all the way from Europe, he was none too happy about any of this, nor did he much enjoy having his picture taken, and shared instantly via text with every armed security officer working for us to help ensure that he didn't try to sneak in later during public hours.  It felt GREAT to see one of the problems chucked unceremoniously out the door.    

 

Requiring that everyone be members who is there on Wednesday night and all day Thursday helps.  It also helps to reduce the number of unknown people in the hall during the times when all that protects your table is a piece of dirty cloth and faith in the best intentions of your fellow man.

 

We're doing as much as we possibly can in the way of security currently, and continue to quietly investigate additional steps and technology that may be implemented in the future.   Honestly, when it all comes down to it, the only reliable protection for a dealer's items is for the dealer to be at the table, keeping attentive watch over his items, with the really valuable stuff in cases or otherwise displayed in a manner slightly more secure than oranges on a fruit stand.  The membership thing was one fairly simple and effective measure that has proven effective for other organizations, though, so that will be in effect at the OVMS as well.  

 

There is theft, yes.. but when you think of all of the gazillions of dollars of stuff in that hall, most of it sitting unprotected on tables that might be unguarded for hours at a time as the owner hunts around for moonpies and penny whistles for his own collection, it is amazing that there is as little theft as there is.  Bad when it happens, but folks are for the most part rather miraculously well-behaved at the shows.  If we can take a few simple steps to help weed out the few bad apples, the shows will be even better.



#18 tarbridge

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Posted 30 December 2015 - 06:29 PM

 
Correct.  It is policy at TMCA now, and has been at OGCA for as long as I know of.  Security is only one aspect.  There are others that have been touched on here, as well as insurance, legal, etc.  Will it solve all of our security problems?  Absolutely not.  Bad guys are bad guys, and they will do bad things.  BUT, it does give us a string or two to pull when none would be available otherwise.
 
I was personally involved in a situation at the front desk at 2015 SOS where a club member was turned away and removed from the premises under police escort.  Why?  He had been previously caught red-handed in a theft the previous year.  How did we know?  He was trying to renew his membership so that he could get in on Thursday.  Having flown all the way from Europe, he was none too happy about any of this, nor did he much enjoy having his picture taken, and shared instantly via text with every armed security officer working for us to help ensure that he didn't try to sneak in later during public hours.  It felt GREAT to see one of the problems chucked unceremoniously out the door.    
 
Requiring that everyone be members who is there on Wednesday night and all day Thursday helps.  It also helps to reduce the number of unknown people in the hall during the times when all that protects your table is a piece of dirty cloth and faith in the best intentions of your fellow man.
 
We're doing as much as we possibly can in the way of security currently, and continue to quietly investigate additional steps and technology that may be implemented in the future.   Honestly, when it all comes down to it, the only reliable protection for a dealer's items is for the dealer to be at the table, keeping attentive watch over his items, with the really valuable stuff in cases or otherwise displayed in a manner slightly more secure than oranges on a fruit stand.  The membership thing was one fairly simple and effective measure that has proven effective for other organizations, though, so that will be in effect at the OVMS as well.  
 
There is theft, yes.. but when you think of all of the gazillions of dollars of stuff in that hall, most of it sitting unprotected on tables that might be unguarded for hours at a time as the owner hunts around for moonpies and penny whistles for his own collection, it is amazing that there is as little theft as there is.  Bad when it happens, but folks are for the most part rather miraculously well-behaved at the shows.  If we can take a few simple steps to help weed out the few bad apples, the shows will be even better.

It is a small price to make the show as safe and secure as possible. I believe it also makes us stronger as a Hobby and Industry to support the Organizations that provide these venues for us all to attend.

#19 tarbridge

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Posted 30 December 2015 - 06:59 PM

Jeff,
I understand by the 2020 SOS that all participants will definitely have to be a member and microchips will be surgically implanted in our right hand. This will allow us not to have to wear cumbersome badges that we usually leave at home or the motel.We will just walk through the door that has been installed with scanners or will be cleared by a hand wand.Also, the microchip will allow our entrance and exit time at the show to be cataloged,this way if you leave early, it will be detected and could cause the forfeiture of future tables.
I did also hear that a database will be kept with the accrued information for reference. It all sounds sensible and forward thinking.Thanks for making a Dealers life more simple.
Is this true? I heard that it is tied in with some type of Nostradamas prophecy. :)
Robert

#20 unclegrumpy

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Posted 30 December 2015 - 07:16 PM

Yes, and when your customer wants that $4500 medal, all you have to do is wave your phone over the chip in his hand, and the deal is done.  Only bad thing is the tax man will be electronically ringing you up as well, so hopefully you still walk out with enough to cover the price of your tables, and the barbecued pork sandwich you owe Trooper Bob for keeping an eye on things while you were out shopping.  



#21 tarbridge

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Posted 30 December 2015 - 07:20 PM

Yes, and when your customer wants that $4500 medal, all you have to do is wave your phone over the chip in his hand, and the deal is done.  Only bad thing is the tax man will be electronically ringing you up as well, so hopefully you still walk out with enough to cover the price of your tables, and the barbecued pork sandwich you owe Trooper Bob for keeping an eye on things while you were out shopping.  

Trooper Bob wants chips and a drink along with the sandwich ...no cheap babysitter...

#22 unclegrumpy

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Posted 30 December 2015 - 07:44 PM

We are all going to have to learn to flex. :(  



#23 CombatEng44

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Posted 04 January 2016 - 03:31 AM

So, I'm a member(just got my "acceptance" but my wife is NOT....spouses get in free....free at noon on Thursday? Or can she come in on Wed setup?  Spouse decides to be my helper...can we get name changed when picking up packet. This spouse thing is confusing and sure don't want any hick-ups when it comes to getting the spouse in!!! So, what's the deal THIS Show and then NEXT show when it comes to a spouse being the helper sometimes? Over thinking this?

The last thing we ALL want are surprises when trying to get in regardless of how flexible we are.  Thanks!



#24 MAW

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Posted 04 January 2016 - 11:40 AM

So, I'm a member(just got my "acceptance" but my wife is NOT....spouses get in free....free at noon on Thursday? Or can she come in on Wed setup?  Spouse decides to be my helper...can we get name changed when picking up packet. This spouse thing is confusing and sure don't want any hick-ups when it comes to getting the spouse in!!! So, what's the deal THIS Show and then NEXT show when it comes to a spouse being the helper sometimes? Over thinking this?

The last thing we ALL want are surprises when trying to get in regardless of how flexible we are.  Thanks!

 

Are you a dealer/table holder for the show? 

 

If so, you're wife can get in when you do......either during Weds. PM set up, or Thursday.  You just need to tell OVMS ahead of time so they have a "family" badge in your packet.



#25 tarbridge

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Posted 04 January 2016 - 11:46 AM

I think all spouses of Dealers or members are allowed in free.I'm sure Jeff will clarify.


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