M1894 Winchester "Spruce" Guns?

[cwnorma]

There were 1800 M1894 30-30 Winchester saddle ring carbines purchased by the Army Air Service to arm the "Spruce Battalions" in the northwest during WW1. Does anyone on the forum have one or, does anyone know how to tell a good one from the many fakes out there?

 

I would like to have one someday but have no idea what to look for, and a quick google search on the subject did not yield much information.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Chris

[Keith]

I had a chance for one at the Tulsa show years ago at a very good price. I walked away and told my table partner about it and he bought it; and still has it. I have heard of fakes but can not help you with how they would have been stamped. There may have been originals that were not all stamped the same..tough call.

[ccyooper]

all my old waca collector magazines are in storage, but as I recall Rick Hill did a rather detailed article on these rifles and their characteristics a few years ago. You may want to check out the Winchester Arms collectors association web site. Or google his name and 1894's. Hope this helps.

[doyler]

The American Rifleman had an article in the February 2008 on them.Seen it reffereanced on a gun sight

[kwill]

The article in TAR from Feb 2008 is written by Bruce Canfield and the information is also in his book, US Infantry Weapons of the First World War. There is also some information in the old Madis book on Winchester but it is dated and not terribly accurate. Rick Hill and Bert Hartman of the Winchesters Arms Collectors Association are the "go to" guys on these and will be very helpful if you contact them: http://winchestercollector.org/

 

These guns fall into the SN range of 835XXX to 853XXX. Most have US and the Ordnance shell and flame stamped on the receiver but some do not. The ones that are not US marked should have "J.C.'17" stamped on the bottom of the receiver which probably stands for Captain James Van D. Crisp who was the Disbursing Officer for the Signal Corps at Vancouver Barracks. About half the guns have a walnut stock and the other half have gumwood stocks. This information is from Rick Hill's article. Bert Hartman keeps a database on these and has recorded 195 authentic examples, 13 known fakes and 5 that are undetermined as yet.

[THREEDFLYER]

Just stumbled upon this old thread, I own one of the "Spruce Guns" that is on Bert Hartman's survivor list.

I have owned two of these over the years, but sold one that had been drilled/tapped for a receiver sight.

A very interesting piece of both Winchester and U.S. Military history!

 

The attached photo is of WWI soldier with his .30-30 Winchester U.S Marked carbine.

[triplecanopy]

Here is one of the Winchester Model 1894 US marked rifles. It has an Ordnance Bomb marking on the top of the receiver next to the US. The serial number is 836XXX. It has the previously noted Gumwood stock. Note the saddle ring and long wood front hand guard. This rifle was made in 1916. I'll post some close ups in the next frame.

[triplecanopy]

In this photo you can see clearly the US and ordnance bomb markings.

[triplecanopy]

Here is the Winchester brand and model number on the top of the receiver where the butt stock is attached.

These are interesting old rifles that are now over 100 years old. When I got this rifle well over 40 years ago, the guy said he thought it had belonged to a prison guard.

[everforward]

Here is one of the Winchester Model 1894 US marked rifles. It has an Ordnance Bomb marking on the top of the receiver next to the US. The serial number is 836XXX. It has the previously noted Gumwood stock. Note the saddle ring and long wood front hand guard. This rifle was made in 1916. I'll post some close ups in the next frame.

 

That is a beauty. I saw one of these in the late 90's at a gun show that was clean smooth metal, but a brown patina...all the blue was gone from it. Nice piece.

 

[THREEDFLYER]

A few photos of some "Spruce Soldiers" and one of the LLLL (Loyal Legion of Loggers and Lumbermen pin

 

[THREEDFLYER]

And some photos of my "Spruce Gun"

[Nic]

I picked up one of these a few years ago. A local guy consigned two 1894 carbines to a gun shop I frequented and one of them was a Spruce gun. The shop and seller didn't know what they had, but they did put more of a price premium on it given the US markings. I verified it by contacting Bert and went ahead and bought it. I'm still kicking myself for not buying the second carbine the seller had. It wasn't a Spruce gun, but was reasonably priced and was very nice example from the early 1900s. Recently I picked up this photo from a seller in Oregon. I sent it to Bert to check out and he indicated that he was very sure it depicted a Spruce gun.