US Allied Troops in Norway patches

[ocsfollowme]

Two recent pick ups. Interesting that they have variations on the back panel. Slightly different in size too. I have been hunting for one of these for a while.

 

 

 

 

[Patchcollector]

Neat pieces.I really like this units' patch design.

 

 

Here is a link to one I recently found mixed in with a group of newer patches:

 

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/238481-a-british-troops-in-norway-patchalso-worn-by-us-personnel/?hl=%2Bnorway+%2Bpatch

 

 

In my thread you can see pics of some interesting variations of this insignia.

[Garth Thompson]

The correct term for this is British Troops in Norway. It is a british army formation sign but was used by some US forces who worked with the British army in Norway. I have only seen two versions on US uniforms, a bullion one and a printed one.

[pathfinder505]

I have only seen one on a uniform and that was the printed version. Never had the opportunity to see the bullion one on a uniform but hopefully someday.

[Sabrejet]

Very nice! Here's another variant currently on the forum.

 

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/254863-nice-us-british-forces-norway-patch-rare-49500-usd/

[phillock]

Hi all

 

Question , so if you pick up a BT in Norway Formation sign/SSI, where would you put that in your collection , British or American (or as worn by)?

 

I would , for example, put under British without any provenance to being American or if I had provenance as being worn by American then American.

 

Your thoughts would be appreciated.

 

Phill

[Patchcollector]

I tend to focus more on who could have worn it rather than who it was originally designed for.Without provenance it is impossible to determine if an American or British wore it so I keep mine with my American patches.

[doyler]

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/247223-other-uniform-from-the-weekendnot-airborne/?fromsearch=1

 

Heres one I have.Unamed but original.

[firefighter]

Those are some nice patches

[phillock]

I tend to focus more on who could have worn it rather than who it was originally designed for.Without provenance it is impossible to determine if an American or British wore it so I keep mine with my American patches.

 

Thanks PC interesting POV.

 

 

 

Phill

[ocsfollowme]

I inquired about cutting the black backing off of the reverse one (left side pictured) to UC Irvine for carbon dating. Should be interesting! Anyone ever hear of doing carbon dating on WW2 patches for authenticity? =) The science of collecting.

[Airborne-Hunter]

I inquired about cutting the black backing off of the reverse one (left side pictured) to UC Irvine for carbon dating. Should be interesting! Anyone ever hear of doing carbon dating on WW2 patches for authenticity? =) The science of collecting.

I don't think carbon dating will provide a year. Instead it will provide a range. Also, I believe, that range, at its narrowest, is 20-50 years. e.g. 1920-1970.

 

I know there are several versions of the patch. Never seen a bullion, but I know printed versions were on uniforms and have one ID'd to a major. I think I have seen a machine made one on twill on a US uniform as well, but I never handled it in person.

 

Best ABN

[ocsfollowme]

I don't think carbon dating will provide a year. Instead it will provide a range. Also, I believe, that range, at its narrowest, is 20-50 years. e.g. 1920-1970.

 

I know there are several versions of the patch. Never seen a bullion, but I know printed versions were on uniforms and have one ID'd to a major. I think I have seen a machine made one on twill on a US uniform as well, but I never handled it in person.

 

Best ABN

 

This was what my inquiry was. I am hoping that chemicals in 1960s-1970s fabrics could be picked up.

 

I am sure reproductions of WW2 patches could have started in the 1950s but were obviously less prevalent when you could call your uncle to get your hands on an original.

 

It will be an interesting to hear back from the lab with their thoughts if it can even be done.

[mortaydc60]

Surprised that no one has brought up fact that the patches posted in the original post have a black border, never saw that on any original version of the patch. Maybe not a border but continuation of back of patch?

[Teamski]

Definitely not US. Thread should be locked.

 

-Ski

[vintageproductions]

But worn by US servicemen, so it will stay open.

[Patchcollector]

The thing I find fascinating with these patches is the wide range of variations.

 

Here is a spectacular bullion example that I had found an image of and posted within my thread that I linked to in post # 2 of this thread.

 

It was from an OSS group that IIRC,sold for around 10k.

[phillock]

Definitely not US. Thread should be locked.

 

-Ski

From a good friend of mine-note how thick the bullion captains bars.

 

Phill

[Teamski]

Copy that! Now if I can see a legit US uniform with a Chindits patch .......

 

-Ski

[ocsfollowme]

Well I heard back from UC Irvine

 

I work down the street at Concordia and collect original WW2 era US related military patches. I have two patches, that may be reproductions made in the 1970s in England. One has a backing material that I would like to cut off and submit as a sample. Is is typical for "theatre made" patches that were down outside of the US during 1941-1947 to have variations between two patches (which is why one is sewn through the backing and the other is not). An original version of these can fetch $400-600 and I am writing an article on this patch for publication: Allied Troops in Norway--and all of the known variations of it. There have been at least 7-8 known examples of this variation and it is the one that has many patch collectors scratching their heads on its authenticity.

Would this sample work to be able to pin down if the fabric was made in the 1930/1940s as opposed to post 1950? The patch measure about 2.5" square. If you confirm that you could move forward on the testing I will submit the appropriate paperwork.

Thanks in advance,

 

Their response below

 

[Gunslinger]

Not a fan of these, they look like Reproductions made in the U.K. from the 80's.

 

Some may already know the history behind these, the British Troops in Norway insignia were worn by British, Americans and Free Norwegian Forces during the disarming of the Germans at the end of the war and to re-establish the Norwegian Govt.

 

Here are a pair of printed version that are off tunic and ID'd

 

CDub

[mortaydc60]

Just to clarify Gunslinger you are saying that the patches in the original post are reproductions and not the printed versions shown in #21. In not such a direct manner I suggested the same in post #14.

[Gunslinger]

Correct, the black border embroidered pair in post #1 look like Reproductions.

 

The printed pair i'd posted in post #21 are text book Originals made by Calico. These were the very first first issue to British, American and Free Norwegians.

 

CDub