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USMC METAL CHEVRONS????


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#1 Greg Robinson

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Posted 16 August 2008 - 02:25 AM

Can anybody tell me what year the Marine Corps adopted the metal enlisted rank chevrons? And then when did they modify them to have the crossed rifles beginning with Lance Corporal?

Thanks
Greg

#2 teufelhunde.ret

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Posted 16 August 2008 - 02:51 AM

Greg, the metal chevron came about late in 54 and Lance Corporal rank came about in 58...? Not positive about that... s/f Darrell

#3 Greg Robinson

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Posted 16 August 2008 - 03:56 AM

I saw a posting on the forum about screwback metal chevrons and assume those were the early ones. When did the clutchback design replace those? I know it was sometime before the late '60's.

#4 teufelhunde.ret

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Posted 16 August 2008 - 05:02 AM

Greg, I'm not sure that was the case. Clutch-backs were being used before that period on other emblems and devices, with the first generation of clutchback designs used on EGA's, for one, in the 30's. The next generation, we know where implemented during WW2 and most widely used thereafter. I believe there was a period of dual use, based on the individual preference. And the clutchback eventually won out as it was readily replaced and did not damage the screw-post of those you mention, if cross-threaded. I'm hope someone will jump in here to validate?

#5 craig_pickrall

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Posted 16 August 2008 - 07:37 AM

Greg, the only screw back chevrons I remember discussion on were those made in Korea. Brig has a nice selection of those posted. I added a couple of the Army version to his thread. The interesting thing I found was the USMC version and the Army version were the same except for the painted color.

The Korean made version was used on helmet liners and the occasional cap / cover.

The USMC started the official use of these pin ons several years before the Army adopted them. The late 54 date for the official version sounds good to me.

By the way, Brig also has a good selection of these early, large size, pin on chevrons, posted as well.

#6 Greg Robinson

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Posted 16 August 2008 - 07:59 AM

Greg, the only screw back chevrons I remember discussion on were those made in Korea. Brig has a nice selection of those posted. I added a couple of the Army version to his thread. The interesting thing I found was the USMC version and the Army version were the same except for the painted color.


Craig

I figured the Army version would be similar which might have motivated the Marine Corps to add the crossed rifles to their enlisted rank insignia. So how do you tell the difference between Army and USMC? What are the color differences?

#7 teufelhunde.ret

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Posted 16 August 2008 - 08:29 AM

The few I have are black.

#8 craig_pickrall

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Posted 16 August 2008 - 09:51 AM

This is the link for the Korean made chevrons. When looking at it now I see the USMC version is clutch back while the Army versions I have appear to be the same metal chevron except for the color but they are screw post backs.

http://www.usmilitar...showtopic=15936

#9 craig_pickrall

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Posted 16 August 2008 - 09:53 AM

This is the link for the 1954 issue version. These early ones are wider than the later version with crossed rifles.

http://www.usmilitar...showtopic=15936

#10 Brig

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Posted 16 August 2008 - 05:15 PM

I just got in a nice carded pair of 1st Sgt early chevrons I'll be posting in the next day or two on that thread

#11 Brig

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Posted 16 August 2008 - 05:16 PM

This is the link for the Korean made chevrons. When looking at it now I see the USMC version is clutch back while the Army versions I have appear to be the same metal chevron except for the color but they are screw post backs.

http://www.usmilitar...showtopic=15936

actually, the link for the Korean made is here...you accidentally posted the link to the early chevrons twice...

http://www.usmilitar...showtopic=15328

#12 craig_pickrall

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Posted 16 August 2008 - 08:23 PM

Thanks for the correction. See what happens when you get old.

#13 Greg Robinson

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Posted 25 August 2008 - 07:59 AM

Just got these off ebay....do they look OK? Seller called them mid '50's USMC. They're clutch backs. Seller called them "Platoon SGT" but to me they're Gunny SGT chevrons. Did that rank change since the 1950's?

Greg

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#14 collector

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Posted 25 August 2008 - 11:40 AM

I've got a couple of shots from the 1950's where the metal chevrons are attached to the front of the WW2-style helmet camo covers that were still being used.

#15 Brig

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Posted 25 August 2008 - 07:06 PM

all of the original USMC chevrons were screwback... Greg, remove the clutches and see if the posts are actually screwposts? they'll have a fine fine threading. I too have gotten some original early chevrons with clutches on them, added by the original owner or the eventual seller

#16 Greg Robinson

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Posted 26 August 2008 - 02:33 AM

all of the original USMC chevrons were screwback... Greg, remove the clutches and see if the posts are actually screwposts? they'll have a fine fine threading. I too have gotten some original early chevrons with clutches on them, added by the original owner or the eventual seller


Brig

Nope....no threads...look like original clutch backs to me. One of them has markings "APP'D 354"

Greg

#17 Lee Ragan

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Posted 26 August 2008 - 07:51 AM

Just got these off ebay....do they look OK? Seller called them mid '50's USMC. They're clutch backs. Seller called them "Platoon SGT" but to me they're Gunny SGT chevrons. Did that rank change since the 1950's?

Greg

These were actually Technical Sergeant chevrons. When the crossed rifles came along and the addition of the E-8 & E-9 pay grades, the Marines changed the old Tech. Sgt. back to Gunnery Sergeant. The the old movie The D.I.", Jack Webb's character is a Technical Sergeant.

#18 usmc-collector

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Posted 26 June 2010 - 02:16 PM

I did some research and draw some reference pictures, based on information from USMC uniform regulations and othe sources the metal and plastic chevrons were used as follow:

metalplast.jpg

more reference pictures bellow. JAROSLAV

#19 usmc-collector

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Posted 26 June 2010 - 02:18 PM

USMC, Enlisted Insignia, Grade, Metal - 1956-1958, without crossed rifles

P1956.jpg

#20 usmc-collector

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Posted 26 June 2010 - 02:19 PM

USMC, Enlisted Insignia, Grade, Metal - 1959-present / Plastic - 1970-1997

P1959.jpg

#21 pmanton

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Posted 26 June 2010 - 03:10 PM

Interesting thread. It grabbed my attention

I entered the Marine Corps in Spring of '55. It that time rank was still being inked on the sleeves. They had a kit in the exchange that was a plastic stencil that would fit over the sleeve so you could make a professional looking cheveron. I don't think the metal chevrons were in regular use until 56 or so.

The subject of crossed rifles still frosts my butt. In the Corps there was a BIG difference between a sergeant and a staff sergeant. It was Officers and Staff NCOs on top, and way down the line Sergeants and below. Sergeants and below had close order drill. Staff NCOs did not. Sgts & below stood inspection with a rifle, Stacc NCOs did not. The heads had a sign on the door. Officers and Staff NCOs and of course one for Sgts and below. Etc etc.

In Sept 58 I was promoted Sergeant. I could look forward to SSGT 18 months after that. Bu Feb of 59 I was no longer SGT. I was now an Acting SGT E-4. :thumbdown:
In another 18 months I could look forward to making Sgt again. :mad: I still would be standing inspection with a rifle, and would have another 18 months before I would be considered for SSGT.

To top if off I had reenlisted just before the big change.

Even though I did finally make Staff NCO I was done with the Corps. The delayed promotion plus duty at MCRD San Diego was enough for me to let my time run out and get out.

Cheers:

Paul
Salome, AZ


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