WWII 113th Cavalry Group, "Red Horse" Unit Marked Helmet

[USMC-RECON0321]

Here is one that caught my attention on “set up day” at the MAX show and I worked on making a deal for 3 days to get it. The problem was, the seller believed it was a WWII 101st AB Division marked helmet and had it priced to support that! WOW…

I had seen these same markings posted before and knew it wasn’t what he thought it was, but still a great helmet. So after showing him my references to the markings I was finally able to make deal with a much more realistic price.

This is actually what I believe it to be, a 113th Cavalry "Red Horse" Group (Mechanized) unit marked helmet. I know of two other helmets in collections with these same markings and both only have the “Red Horse” head painted on the right side, overlapping the yellow circle. The left sides only have the yellow circle. (possibly vesicant paint)? Researching images of the 113th, it seems only a small number of helmets applied these markings, so maybe a specific unit within the 113th?

 

In their very short post war existence (just prior to being disbanded), the 113th can be found with the full 113th “Red Horse” insignia being stenciled on their liners and some shells.

 

I would appreciate any help in the research of this unit and the use of these markings, especially any unit rosters to help ID the Laundry #.

This is a fixed loop shell only and a laundry number painted inside. The best I can make out is “H-1621”.

I like how the soldier cut some of the stitching on the short strap to lengthen it.

The 113th had a very extensive WWII battle history, being attached out to many units and operating all over the ETO throughout the war. Shortly after the war the 113th was disbanded and not activated again until 1992.

 

http://api.viglink.com/api/click?format=go&jsonp=vglnk_144416617085110&key=bbb516d91daee20498798694a42dd559&libId=iffui5jm010004m6000DAec4ipal0&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fadvancedpots.proboards.com%2Fthread%2F4050%2F&v=1&out=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.redhorse.nl%2F&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fadvancedpots.proboards.com%2F&title=113th%20Cavalry%20Group%20%22Red%20Horse%22%20Unit%20Marked%20Helmet.%20%7C%20Advanced%20Pots%20Forum&txt=www.redhorse.nl%2F

 

 

History

The 113th was inducted into federal service on 13 January 1941, and moved to Camp Bowie, Texas, on 25 January 1941.

The 113th Cavalry Regiment (Horse-Mechanized) sailed to England, arriving on 28 January 1944. In England, the regiment was converted to the 113th Cavalry Group (Mechanized), with the 1st Squadron becoming the 113th Cavalry Squadron (Mechanized) and the 2nd Squadron becoming the 125th Cavalry Squadron (Mechanized), both subordinated to the 113th Cavalry Group. Subsequently, the 113th Cavalry Group served as the mechanized cavalry group for the U.S. XIX Corps, fighting in Normandy, Holland, and the conquest of Germany. The 113th Cavalry Group returned to the New York port of entry on 25 October 1945 and was inactivated at Camp Shanks, New York, on 26 October 1945.

The 1st Squadron, 113th Cavalry was reactivated on September 11, 1992, at ceremonies at Camp Dodge, Iowa, from former elements of the 194th Cavalry.

 

[USMC-RECON0321]

 

 

[USMC-RECON0321]

 

[USMC-RECON0321]

 

[USMC-RECON0321]

Here are three pictures I found on a 113th Cavalry History sight showing the yellow markings on the left side of the helmet. Hard to see under the net.

 

[BigDogMilitaria]

NIce lid Troy! I wish i still had that uniform for you to go with it.

[USMC-RECON0321]

And in this picture from the same 113th web site, you can faintly see the red horse over the circle on the right side of the helmet of the soldier kneeling and the plane circle (No horse head) on the left side of his helmet.

[USMC-RECON0321]

NIce lid Troy! I wish i still had that uniform for you to go with it.

 

Jay,

Thanks, me too, that would've made a nice display.

 

Troy

[stealthytyler]

Could it be a Navy shore party medic or seabees? Check out this thread...

 

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/241770-usn-seabee-helmet/

 

and

 

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/32092-navy-camo-helmet-to-id/

[USMC-RECON0321]

No. Circles were used for many things but this one With the red horse head and circles I'm sure is for the 113th Cav. after posting this I found another thread by USMF member Doyler (Ron) with the same unit marked helmet and ID'd it also to a 113th Cav soldier. Also the period pictures I updated in the first post showing the markings is direct from the 113ths web site I posted a link to.

 

Thanks

Troy

[BROBS]

certainly a 113th cav from WW2.. super find!

[BROBS]

if that's the correct laundry number looks like there's 67 hits..

http://wwii-enlistment.com/search/?q=H1621&select=laundryNumber&quick-search=1

[USMC-RECON0321]

if that's the correct laundry number looks like there's 67 hits..

http://wwii-enlistment.com/search/?q=H1621&select=laundryNumber&quick-search=1

 

Yes, I printed that long... list also. LOL That is a lot of research to get through and really my best chance would be to get unit rosters if they exist?

[BROBS]

I'd say that's about your best bet unless you can find out any more info about where it came from etc...

[just-a-good-ole-boy]

Troy, from what I was told, the 113th Cav was an Iowa unit, so if you have any hits from that area I would start there.

 

Steve

[Sparty On]

Here's partial list of veterans of the 113th that were wounded or KIA during the war:

 

Hall, Dick

Handley, Olin

Hegge, Kenneth

Henderson, Joseph

Herberlin, Benton

Herwig, Paul

Hurteau, Francis

 

These few were from the 113th CRS

[USMC-RECON0321]

Thanks Steve and Mike for the tips.

 

Troy

[USMC-RECON0321]

Thanks to Ron (Doyler) for finding this image of a 113th Cav 1945 dated Newspaper. You can see the same horse head in their logo, just facing the opposite direction. You can clearly see the horse's ears, the open mouth and the shape of the neck line are a solid match on both in my opinion.

 

[BROBS]

dead on match and no doubt in my mind what this helmet is...

 

as for looking for Iowa guys in the 113th, there were plenty of draftees in the 113th as well so just looking at Iowa guys isn't necessarily going to find your man. I have a Silver Star group with field citation (with the red horse DI logo) and the guy was from PA.

 

-Brian

[anton67]

Nice helmet Troy.

Congratulations!

[1canpara]

Forgive my ignorance / lack of knowledge in the area of "laundry numbers" etc, but weren't they unique to one soldier? How can there be so many hits on the same number? These numbers and ASN's etc are still a bit of a mystery to me....

 

BTW, another killer helmet Troy, you're going to need a bigger room soon!

 

Rick

[Cap Camouflage Pattern I]

Forgive my ignorance / lack of knowledge in the area of "laundry numbers" etc, but weren't they unique to one soldier? How can there be so many hits on the same number? These numbers and ASN's etc are still a bit of a mystery to me....

 

BTW, another killer helmet Troy, you're going to need a bigger room soon!

 

Rick

I don't really understand it much either but I believe the ASN is supposed to be unique (not always was) but the laundry numbers could be the same.

 

 

John Doe who's ASN is 2134857685 who's laundry number is D7685

Henry Dormer who's ASN is 3728397685 who's laundry number is also D7685

As long as they are not in the same regiment their stuff won't get messed up.

 

Because of the length of laundry number it is impossible for every person in the army to have a different one.

[doyler]

No. Circles were used for many things but this one With the red horse head and circles I'm sure is for the 113th Cav. after posting this I found another thread by USMF member Doyler (Ron) with the same unit marked helmet and ID'd it also to a 113th Cav soldier. Also the period pictures I updated in the first post showing the markings is direct from the 113ths web site I posted a link to.

 

Thanks

Troy

Agreed....I think more helmets are mis-identified as airborne or medic due to the circles.Case in point is Troys helmet and the dealer who had it.The circle immediately made it an "airborne" helmet and instant payday for the seller.Granted circles are a known marking for these other units but a circle, square, triangle, oval are all simple markings to be applied if used to designate units within a division, battalion, regiment etc.Often the mystery is finding what unit/units used them.

[USMC-RECON0321]

I don't really understand it much either but I believe the ASN is supposed to be unique (not always was) but the laundry numbers could be the same.

 

 

John Doe who's ASN is 2134857685 who's laundry number is D7685

Henry Dormer who's ASN is 3728397685 who's laundry number is also D7685

As long as they are not in the same regiment their stuff won't get messed up.

 

Because of the length of laundry number it is impossible for every person in the army to have a different one.

 

Rick,

 

That is correct. The laundry number is nothing more than the first Initial of the service members Surname and the last 4 numbers of his service number. For example mine would be B-3672, but anyone else with a last name starting with "B" and has the same last 4 numbers in their "Full" service number would have the same laundry number as me. Basically for us collectors, it just narrows down your search. But it can still be very frustrating. If there is nothing else to go on like Unit, rank, home town etc. you will never be able to positively identity your guy 100% from only a laundry number.

 

For example as with the helmet in this thread, I have a laundry number AND a known unit, so now I have to take the list of 60+ matches to the laundry number and attempt to research each one until I can make a connection to the unit. Even then, it's not 100% positive, unless you can get a complete roster of the unit and confirm there was no other members with that same laundry number. If there is more than one, all you can ever say with certainty is its one of these two or three or ... guys? That's why I ask as many questions as I can from the seller and hope to trace the helmet back to where it originally surfaced from and that may be the piece of the puzzle that gives you the confirmed ID to your Vet.

 

Oh, and just to muddy the waters a bit more, not every service number or laundry number is in the database. And... keep in mind the database is only for Army Enlisted, not the Officers (Who also were known to use laundry numbers with their surname initials as well as the "0")

 

Hope this helps

Troy

[Cap Camouflage Pattern I]

Yeah, it's a real mess partially because there was a war on so some people were given the exact same ASN and because the archives caught on fire and the machines can't read some of the data even if it didn't get burned.