Jump to content

Trench art mess tins & canteens


kirby
 Share

Recommended Posts

  • 1 month later...

I found a WWII dated aluminum GI canteen cup with lots of personalized engraving at the antique shop

 

it was covered with the names of several towns in europe, and also had several names of GI's engraved on it

 

it didnt have any artwork etched on it, just names and places

 

he wanted $36.00 for it

 

the etching / engraving didnt look recent

 

similiar to how this cup looks

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I found a WWII dated aluminum GI canteen cup with lots of personalized engraving at the antique shop

 

it was covered with the names of several towns in europe, and also had several names of GI's engraved on it

 

it didnt have any artwork etched on it, just names and places

 

he wanted $36.00 for it

 

the etching / engraving didnt look recent

 

similiar to how this cup looks

 

For $36 it'd be worth it just to see if you could determine the unit based on the names and towns. If you could ID the unit, it might be worth a lot more than $36, but even without that, I don't think $36 is a bad price for a personalized piece of history.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It all depends on the quality of the artwork and the unit/history of the vet.

 

 

I saw a 1917 dated canteen on Ebay last year etched in a Philippine POW camp by a Bataan veteran. It went for $400 . I also have a mess kit etched on by a Bataan vet in my collection.

 

 

Kurt

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I also remember it had the soldier's service number on the back near the top edge

 

the quality actually looked quite fancy, whoever engraved was skilled, the letters had a nice zig zag style etching

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Russell 1910

I got this cup (which has been posted here previously in a discussion on canteens) at an antique store near my house 3 or 4 years ago. They had it priced at $75 and I think it sat there for about a year. I would stop in every few weeks to see what else they had and check on the "status" of this cup. Finally I walked in one day and the cup was missing from the table where it had been sitting. I walked around the place looking, figuring someone had gotten a deal on it, or took it at the asking price. Then I spotted it on the other side of the store, with the discounted price of $25 and figured it was time to move. It is dated 1941. It appears to be comparable to the example you found.

 

Good luck.

 

post-141-1175821594.jpg

 

 

 

post-141-1175821639.jpg

 

 

 

post-141-1175821671.jpg

 

 

 

post-141-1175821698.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

yes, it looked very similiar to your cup, the etching of the letters is also the same style or pattern.

 

I havent been back to the store, because it's over 60 miles away, but it's been in the antique shop for at least a year.

 

$36 seems kind of high priced for a canteen cup

Link to comment
Share on other sites

$36 seems kind of high priced for a canteen cup

 

It is, unless it's engraved and ID'ed: then it becomes something more than just a cup.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

maybe I should etch my canteen cup with the places I've been if it'll fetch me 400 bucks some day :lol:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

craig_pickrall

Brig, since you know how it drives collectors crazy you need to list the places you have been but throw in a few places you haven't been too. Syria and Iran are 2 good ones. Be sure to date it too. That should run the price up 40 years from now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here is my $400 messkit :rolleyes:

 

Trench art messkit owned by F2c Robert O Bowen USN . He was initially held at Cabanatuan and was liberated in the Philippines at Bilibid Prison . This kit was obtained from the estate of a different POW who was also himself at Cabanatuan .

After he left Cabanatuan, he was sent to Camp #11 ( Manila Port Area) and off-loaded ships as a POW . His previous service was on the USS John D. Ford and he also had a brother who was a POW captured on Guam. Both survived !

 

bowen.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Brig, since you know how it drives collectors crazy you need to list the places you have been but throw in a few places you haven't been too. Syria and Iran are 2 good ones. Be sure to date it too. That should run the price up 40 years from now.

 

40 years from now we'll see it on eBay with collectors speculating I was a Super Secret Special Recon Raider Commando who conducted super secret special G-14 classified operations behind Iranian and Syrian lines during the war against terror, :lol:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...
Guest The Boot

Hello Everyone,

I found a mess kit with states , countries & RMS Aquatania stamped on it. The soldier must have used a pointed tool because the letters look like brail writting. On the bottom it is signed by Bruno Lissi 44-58. Can anyony tell me if this was a common practice ?? It seems like the soldier put the places he has been during the war. The aluminum is pitted & oxidized, Is their something I could use to clean/presurve it.I would appreciate any help with background of item & value. I was not able to post pictures, If anyone would like to see pictures send your e mail address or post a reply.

Thank you, J. Penna

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You may already have this information, but just in case....

 

ARMY SERIAL NUMBER 32064458

NAME LISSI#BRUNO

RESIDENCE: STATE NEW JERSEY

RESIDENCE: COUNTY BERGEN

PLACE OF ENLISTMENT NEWARK NEW JERSEY

DATE OF ENLISTMENT DAY 31 31

DATE OF ENLISTMENT MONTH 03 03

DATE OF ENLISTMENT YEAR 41

 

 

Hello Everyone,

I found a mess kit with states , countries & RMS Aquatania stamped on it. The soldier must have used a pointed tool because the letters look like brail writting. On the bottom it is signed by Bruno Lissi 44-58. Can anyony tell me if this was a common practice ?? It seems like the soldier put the places he has been during the war. The aluminum is pitted & oxidized, Is their something I could use to clean/presurve it.I would appreciate any help with background of item & value. I was not able to post pictures, If anyone would like to see pictures send your e mail address or post a reply.

Thank you, J. Penna

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was not able to post pictures, If anyone would like to see pictures send your e mail address or post a reply.

Thank you, J. Penna

 

 

What happened when you tried to post a photo? If a photo's file size is too large, you cannot upload it. Here are some tips for cropping and resizing photos for web use:

 

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=7

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest The Boot
You may already have this information, but just in case....

 

ARMY SERIAL NUMBER 32064458

NAME LISSI#BRUNO

RESIDENCE: STATE NEW JERSEY

RESIDENCE: COUNTY BERGEN

PLACE OF ENLISTMENT NEWARK NEW JERSEY

DATE OF ENLISTMENT DAY 31 31

DATE OF ENLISTMENT MONTH 03 03

DATE OF ENLISTMENT YEAR 41

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello Everyone,

I found a mess kit with states , countries & RMS Aquatania stamped on it. The soldier must have used a pointed tool because the letters look like brail writting. On the bottom it is signed by Bruno Lissi 44-58. Can anyony tell me if this was a common practice ?? It seems like the soldier put the places he has been during the war. The aluminum is pitted & oxidized, Is their something I could use to clean/presurve it.I would appreciate any help with background of item & value. I was not able to post pictures, If anyone would like to see pictures send your e mail address or post a reply.

Thank you, J. Penna

 

 

I have observed that there were 4 or 5 ways that aluminum and sometimes other materials were marked. The standard markings for WWI the unit designation that was most commonly regiment or battalion, type unit (not always present) company letter and "soldier's number" that was a unique number within the company that was assigned and marked on all the equipment issued to one soldier. Examples:

 

1A11 (1st Infantry Regiment, A Company, soldier's number 11)(this abbreviated marking more prevelent pre-WWI in Regular Army units);

 

1CAV B12 (1st Cavalry Regiment, B Troop , soldier's number 12);

 

24MG C2 (24th Machine Gun Battalion, C Company, soldier's number 2);

 

4EN HS 44 (4th Engineer Regiment, Headquarters and Supply Company, soldier's number 44);

 

342 FA F 21 (342d Field Artillery Regiment, Battery F, soldier's number 21);

 

1SIG B43 (1st Field Signal Battalion, Company B, soldier's number 43).

 

6NCS4 (6th Infantry Regiment, Non Commissioned Staff, soldier's number 4)

 

You may notice that regiments and battalions can be confused if you are not informed of the organization and order of battle of the Army. It is also required to interpret some of the branch or type units to know the standard abbreviation for the branch. (During WWI A.S. usually meant aero squadron, but could mean air service, aviation section, Army service corps, aviation school and etc. It is therefore imparitave to have knowledge of organization and unit numbering systems.) These markings were most often applied with the letters and number stamps provided in Marking Kit for Stamping Metal. The Marine Corps had numbered companies but did not use this system to mark equipment.

 

After WWI and through the Korean Conflict the individual marking of the first letter of the soldier's last name and last four digits of the serial number were used. This marking was usually applied with the Marking Kit for Stamping Metal, but may have been applied using the methods detailed.

 

Engraving - Some of the so called trench art is very ornately engraved by people with a talent and time for such work. I interviewed a WWI veteran that stated that POW camps were a good source of skilled engravers. Soldiers would trade cigarettes, food and other things in exchange for the work. This apparently also occurred in France and the occupied countries after the war. It can be assumed that there were skilled engravers in the Army and that they traded their work for similar items.

 

Scratching - Most of the trench art produced by soldiers was produced by applying a sharp instrument to the aluminum. This type marking was usually haphazardly applied, sometimes more than once. The soldiers sometimes included other more personal markings like name, rank unit and etc. Officers for some reason often included their serial numbers.

 

Stippling - this was a technique of forming the marking by punching a series of dots with a pointed instrument. The Stamping Kit included an "." that was not suitable for scratching the metal but worked fine as a punch. This technique took a little longer than scratching but the soldier may have opted for this method simply because there was plenty of time to do the work.

 

Engraving pencil - Much of the trench art around today was made using a vibrating stylus. I don't know if this kind of engraver was available during WWII and afterwards, but there seems to be an extraordinary amount of trench art that was produced by this type instrument. The markings are a series of fairly uniform scratches.

 

I have examined many of these items with the markings described and there are some generalities to note. Genuine period marked items are invariably dirty or have a surface darkened by the oils left on the item by the hand. This accumulates into a uniform darker surface but also accumulates in the markings, no matter how applied. I have to say that any trench art or marking that is bright and looks like it was applied yesterday probably was, especially if applied with an electric stylus.

 

It is sometimes possible to identify the unit the individual served in by the locations marked on the item. This may come down to several units in the same division, but that's a great deal more than knowing the soldier was in the Army with millions of other soldiers and no clue as to location of service.

 

After much experimentation with different products I have found one that is very satisfactory for cleaning aluminum. I decline to share the product here, but if you want to try it send me an e-mail.

 

Rock Island Arsenal Museum uses some sort of wax to preserve metal items. The wax gives the metal a slight sheen but is not distractive. At most of the museums I have visited I was required to wear cotton gloves when handling any object. I suggest that once you have cleaned, stabilized and preserved the item you allow no one including yourself to handle the item without gloves. The salts in the oils released form the skin are highly condusive to corrosion especially on steel i.e. firearms.

 

As to the atmospheric conditions you will have to determine what airborne hazards there are that will over time damage artifacts. Among these are moisture (especially near salt water), pollutants and household things like cigarette smoke, cooking, cleaning products, engine exhaust and etc.

 

For far too many collectors there is no sense of conservertorship to preserve items. Their view is they own it, they can what they want with it, preserve it as a conservator or slowly destroy it by exposure to chemicals, insects, rodents and any other destructive effects.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 year later...
  • 1 year later...

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...