Hanger, Machinegun, M3

[robinb]

A new addition to my ever growing Pack Saddle collection is this pre-WWII Hanger, Machinegun, M3. It was used by the Cavalry to carry the M1919A4 Browning Machinegun, M2 tripod, and a Spare Parts Chest. It came out in the late 1930's. There would be a similarly built hanger for the other side of the saddle that would carry three chests of .30 Caliber ammunition. That hanger is still on my want list.

 

[swag]

Just one question: How much did the damned horse mannequin cost you?

[robinb]

I don't think my horse is "damned". In fact, it's my most cherished display item. No better way to display my saddles.

[swag]

robinb - Sorry man, wasn't trying to ruffle any feathers. Awesome display. My mind just kept coming back to "how much did that horse cost him?"

[hawkdriver]

OK, now that the feathers are settled back down, the original question stands. How much? You, my friend are a die hard!

[robinb]

I paid $1000 for the horse. Found it at an old horse tack shop near me. It wasn't out for sale, but in storage in the back barn. As I was leaving the shop, almost as an after thought, I asked if they knew where I could get one of those fiberglass horse mannikins. I don't think they really thought I would buy it.

[artu44]

Is not a mule more suitable than an horse for that duty? If so you can elogate a bit the ears of that horse (or mare?) using a simple fiberglass repair kit.

[robinb]

Artu, that's a good question. The Cavalry used both horses and mules to pack equipment. My horse is equiped with a M1924 Phillips Cavarly Pack Saddle. It is lighter than the M1924 Phillips Cargo Saddle, which was for use by mules. Pack horses were expected to keep up with the faster Cavalry horses, while the slower paced mules traveled behind with much heavier loads.

[artu44]

Artu, that's a good question. The Cavalry used both horses and mules to pack equipment. My horse is equiped with a M1924 Phillips Cavarly Pack Saddle. It is lighter than the M1924 Phillips Cargo Saddle, which was for use by mules. Pack horses were expected to keep up with the faster Cavalry horses, while the slower paced mules traveled behind with much heavier loads.

 

Fine! I've found on this site a nice pic of the pack with a potato digger secured on.

 

http://www.militaryhorse.org/studies/phillips/pack.php

[J_Andrews]

Didn't groups of mules also need a "bell horse", with a rider, to lead them around?

 

I knew a WWII horse Cavalry vet who was taken from instructing at Ft Riley and attached first to the 87th Inf Regt then 10th Mtn Div to teach horsemanship to MULE skinners. When the 10th left the ZI, he went on leave and when he reported back to Riley his course had been discontinued. After some months cooling his heels -- running the recreational stables and giving lessons to Army dependents -- he went to the ETO -- and wound up a 1st Sgt in a Repo Depot until after the Bulge, then was sent to an Inf Div Recon Troop (IIRC the 89th ID). He was then in an MP mounted unit, then the Constabulary school. He had been an RA enlistee in 1940 but got out because he saw no future in horses and the Army wanted him in MPs.

[robinb]

Pack mules were trained to follow a "bell mare". When the mules were allowed to forage during a break, to reassemble them, the bell mare's bell would begin to sound, and the mules would line up behind her, usually in the same order that they were when they stopped the night before. Smart animals those mules.

[artu44]

Smart animals those mules.

Yes but quite stubborn. They were extensively used by our mountain troops on narrow and dangerous path on high mountains and old soldiers were telling that suddenly a mule stopped himself and not even all saints could move it again until he decided to go ahead. A little trivia, during WWII on the gothic line, a successful US attack was possible thanks to italian mules and their masters.

[collector]

Is that a gas mask on the horse?

[robinb]

Yes, it's the M4 Horse Gas Mask. Dated 5-42. It differs from the M5 Horse Gas Mask in that the two filters for the M4 are carried one on each side of the animal, and the M5 has them both on the same side.

[El Bibliotecario]

FWIW, I have a photo of the Machine gun Troop, 14th Cavalry taken at Ft Des Moines, IA in May 1938. I have been unsuccessful in scanning an uploadable copy, but I'm fairly certain all of the beasts, both pack animals and mounts, are horses. In my photo the machine guns are the M1917A1 watercooled pattern, and they are packed on the 'driver's' side of the horse, with the heavy tripod on the opposite side, presumably as a counterweight. Was your packsaddle used for both pattern of machine guns?

[J_Andrews]

Another tidbit of WWII mule trivia:

 

When the decision to form US combat units in the CBI (what became Merrill's Marauders) was made, the OQMG discovered that there was a huge shortage of mules. Virtually none were available in the US as they had already been taken (and they don't exactly breed like rabbits). The numbers available in Canada and Mexico were insufficient (and IIRC the Mexican ones were afflicted with disease). None could be diverted from the MTO, and ever likely place in Africa and Brazil had been cleaned out before.

 

So, the task of locating, inspecting, buying and shipping several hundred mules was passed to the OSS!

 

Why them? Because the largest likely inventory was in Argentina, a country considered pro-Axis. So OSS agents who spoke Spanish and GERMAN and Italian were sent. They represented themselves as Spaniards, trying to replenish Spanish herds -- and accidentally on purpose let the Argentinians overhear them conversing in German and/or Italian, so that the pro-Axis ones would be happy to cooperate. The same guys also went to Chile, Uruguay and Paraguay. Boatloads of mules with shipping documents for Espana actually went to South Africa, then on to India.

 

Some of the OSS guys acting as escorts/cover-story maintainers arrived in India and a handful wound up in Det 101, on teams with the Kachin/Jingpaws and/or into China. Spanish/German/Italian linguists for the CBI.

[robinb]

FWIW, I have a photo of the Machine gun Troop, 14th Cavalry taken at Ft Des Moines, IA in May 1938. I have been unsuccessful in scanning an uploadable copy, but I'm fairly certain all of the beasts, both pack animals and mounts, are horses. In my photo the machine guns are the M1917A1 watercooled pattern, and they are packed on the 'driver's' side of the horse, with the heavy tripod on the opposite side, presumably as a counterweight. Was your packsaddle used for both pattern of machine guns?

Yes, it was suited to carry the M1917A1 machinegun and tripod. In fact, I have the hanger for the tripod, but not the gun.

There are quite a few different equipment hanger that were made for the Phillips Pack Saddle. I have many, but by no means all of them yet.

My inventory includes hangers for: 60mm mortar and ammunition, M2 .50 cal machinegun, .30 cal MG ammunition, water cans, M1917A1 tripod, 75mm howitzer ammunition, and some kind of radio hanger as of yet unidentified. There are hangers that I don't have for the 75mm pack howitzer, telephone wire reels, and probably more that I don't even know about yet.

If anyone knows of any around, I'm always interested in obtaining more for my collection.

[artu44]

FWIW, I have a photo of the Machine gun Troop, 14th Cavalry taken at Ft Des Moines, IA in May 1938. I have been unsuccessful in scanning an uploadable copy, but I'm fairly certain all of the beasts, both pack animals and mounts, are horses. In my photo the machine guns are the M1917A1 watercooled pattern, and they are packed on the 'driver's' side of the horse, with the heavy tripod on the opposite side, presumably as a counterweight. Was your packsaddle used for both pattern of machine guns?

 

Hi Bib, I'm happy to see you migrated also on this forum.

[124cav]

awesome,how did i miss this?

[hbtcoveralls]

awesome,how did i miss this?

 

I agree, that's a fantastic display of a very scarce item. And the Gas mask just sets it off.

Tom Bowers

[1944]

Thats a Fantastic Display you have got there Very Impressive indeed

with a lot of Very Rare Hard found Items there well done :thumbsup: . I like it.

[bummer]

Awsome display. This has absolutely nothing to do with this thread but here it goes. About 9 years ago I was a student nurse and was taking care of an elderly gentleman and we got to talking about the military, he said that he had been in the 3rd cavalry prior to ww2 and had lost all his memorabilia along the way. I remembered that I had a 3rd Cav DUI at home so the next day I stopped by his hospital room and dropped it off. He was speechless and his eyes started to tear up, he said that he did not know how to thank me and I told him that his service and the look on his face was more than enough. Thanks for allowing me the opportunity of telling this.

[flyer333555]

VERY NICE display. It shows how much you care for cavalry.

 

Thanks for sharing.

 

Luis R.

[illinigander]

Perhaps to late, but very nice display. I have a similar display w/24 horse saddle mounted on it. I have a pair of: Hanger Ammunition Pack M-17. But I can not close them with ammo boxes. Are those M-17's on the floor in front of the horse? Are they closed on MG wooden ammo boxes? Thanks.

Illinigander

[robinb]

The M17 hanger holds 4 of the M1 steel ammo boxes. The wooden M1917 ammo chests fit in a different hanger.