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UNUSUAL SWORD BELT

Started by BEAST , Aug 19 2015 07:53 AM

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#1 BEAST

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Posted 19 August 2015 - 07:53 AM

Does anyone recognize this style of sword belt? It came with a Span-Am officer's group. What type of belt plate would be worn with it?

RUTLEDGE HUGH E_Page_10.jpg

#2 Steve B.

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Posted 19 August 2015 - 08:38 AM

I think it would have the late 1890s "H" style belt plate.

There is one on eBay right now at: http://www.ebay.com/...=item1a046dd5e5

#3 BEAST

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Posted 19 August 2015 - 08:51 AM

I think it would have the late 1890s "H" style belt plate.

There is one on eBay right now at: http://www.ebay.com/...=item1a046dd5e5


Thanks Steve. I was guessing that it would be the H plate, but I wasn't sure. I am hoping to find a photo of it being worn.

#4 Tim

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Posted 20 August 2015 - 02:43 AM

This belt uses the eagle belt plate without the loop plate because the adjustment loop is still on the belt.



#5 BEAST

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Posted 21 August 2015 - 09:28 AM

This belt uses the eagle belt plate without the loop plate because the adjustment loop is still on the belt.


Thanks Tim, can you post a photo?

#6 Tim

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Posted 08 September 2015 - 09:40 AM

A study of the M1874 eagle belt plate (EP)

After the American Civil War (ACW) the enlisted ranks wore a ‘US’ buckle and officers the EP. How well the regulation was enforced and/or expediency may have had an effect. Of course M1855 EP may have continued to be issued to the ranks. Officers, of course were required to purchase their own kit.

Here is a little known fact:  after 1902 the US Army officer uniform regulations only used the eagle belt plate (EP) when wearing FULL dress. Currently US Army officers will be seen wearing EPs with dress blues.  The post 1902 1895 undress uniform carried swords with an internal belt worn under the blouse. In the field swords were suspended from the M1904 field belt. Enlisted did not wear it. However, militia and National Guard units may not have followed the letter of the regulations

 

The vast majority of EPs were and still are used by military schools.

 

Attached are relevant pages from the 1912 edition of The M.C. Lilley Co., Columbus OH catalog.

 

I would prefer to continue this discussion at www.swordforum.com and will go into considerable detail there. Give me a few days to start the thread.

 

I wore an EP at Culver Military Academy Summer Cavalry School in the mid 1960's. That handsome fellow caring the guideon is wearing one.

 

 

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#7 Tim

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Posted 08 September 2015 - 10:34 AM

I may as well ad some EP pictures. As a rule the separate loop adjustment will be earlier than the loop plate method, which is currently used. The upper right photo, at least 3 of the 5, if not all are from military schools.  In the bottom photo, all these are for military schools. Note: the cadet sword frogs and the M1902 saber chain.

 

There were over 300 military schools established in the US between 1870 to 1970; about 35 still exist.

Check this link: https://en.wikipedia...e_United_States

 

During peacetime 1/3 of the market for uniforms, belts, insignia, swords etc. was military schools.

 

If an eagle belt plate lacks sword suspension it is a military school plate. That basic EP belt on eBay is probably not Indian or Span Am war. However a loose plate could be. If the loop plate type, figure it to post 1900. If the belt is assembled with rivets, eyelets, staples or a two piece stitched assembly, consider it to be post 1900. ref to the top picture on the right.

 

At some school all the cadets wore one; it made the uniform blouse fit better.

 

The EP is still being made.

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Edited by Tim, 08 September 2015 - 10:36 AM.



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