bayonetman Posted June 19, 2015 Share #1 Posted June 19, 2015 One of my non-bayonet edged weapon sidelines is the WW2 Navy Mark 2 knife, in large part because my father brought his back from WW2 and it was one of the first two military knives I ever had (the other was his Mark 1). So far I have one of every marking variation that I have seen of all four makers - having said that I am sure that a new one will come along any day now. I don't have all of the Ka-Bar variants of the grip shape and pommel style but I think I have all of the markings. A question that I know has puzzled many collectors is the different leather sheaths for this knife. I only know two makers by name - Boyt Harness and A.L. Siegel. There were obviously others, so I am hoping that some of you can add to our knowledge about these. I know that Frank Trzaska has been looking into these for several years but I don't remember seeing an article by him about them yet. Below I will show some of those that I have, and would like for anyone who has something else to chime in on them. I apologize for the condition of some of these, but almost all were obtained directly from veterans or their families and I appreciate the "used" condition. The first three are stapled around the edge for reinforcement. The upper one is marked U.S.N. on the body and BOYT over 43 on the hanger. This was with my father's knife which is an early Ka-Bar. Under it is a very similar one but unmarked. This may be a later Boyt, made so that it could be supplied with both Navy and Marine versions of the knife. The lower one has a different spacing of the staples, the grip retaining strap crosses over in the opposite direction and the female snap head is a smaller diameter. These four have rivets instead of staples. The top one is stamped U.S.N. on the body but I can't see a mark on the hanger (I have a better one of these that I should photograph one of these days and I can't see a mark on its hanger either). The second one is very similar, unmarked and with the upper pair of rivets with slightly smaller diameter heads. The third one has a very different spacing pattern of the rivets and the grip retaining strap crosses over opposite to the first two. The fourth one uses very small headed rivets with the retaining strap being the same as #3 but with a small headed female fastener. This "folded" version is pretty uncommon, although the version for the USN Mark 1 is somewhat more common. I really know nothing about it and would certainly appreciate any information that anyone has. By 1944 the Navy pretty much went entirely over to the Mark 2 plastic sheath, so the leather ones for the Navy were only made for a couple of years at the most, although the Marines continued to use the leather sheath throughout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
etienne Posted June 19, 2015 Share #2 Posted June 19, 2015 Hello Gary, great review of the different leather sheaths ... I'll take a look to what I have, the folded one for sure but I don't rememeber for others. Thanks, E Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dustin Posted June 28, 2015 Share #3 Posted June 28, 2015 Hello Gary, these two documents suggest that Brauer Bros. MFG. and Nitke Bros. were manufacturers as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dustin Posted June 28, 2015 Share #4 Posted June 28, 2015 .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bayonetman Posted June 28, 2015 Author Share #5 Posted June 28, 2015 Dustin, I again have to thank you for your assistance and willingness to share the information that you have worked hard to accumulate. I will certainly add this information to my file on the USN Mark 2 knife. My father brought home his USN Mark 1 and Mark 2 knives from his tour in WW2 with the SeaBees and that is what got me interested in blades 60+ years ago. The Mark 2 has always been of serious interest to me, but it has only been in the last 20 years or so with the spread of the internet that I have been able to learn about them in more depth. So far I have 14 of the 15 marking variations that I know exist - 3 Camillus, 1 Pal, 3 Robeson and 7 of the 8 Ka-Bars. Over half have came from Vets and several of the others from members of this forum. The only one I am missing (that I know exists) is the one marked Ka-Bar over Olean, N.Y. on the left ricasso and nothing on the right side. Still on the hunt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorin6 Posted June 29, 2015 Share #6 Posted June 29, 2015 Gary, Like this one? There are no markings on the right side, it has the round peen and thick pommel, and the pommel and guard were painted a light gray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bayonetman Posted June 29, 2015 Author Share #7 Posted June 29, 2015 Yes, that is the one I am looking for. The shape of the pommel and the peen varies from specimen to specimen as Ka-Bar used parts in pretty much any combination that can be imagined. If you tried to collect all the marking variants with all the pommel / peen variations you would have a pretty big collection. There are also variations in the location of the blade fuller. Below is a photo of two of the late marking type - guard marked KA- over BAR on right side, USN over MK 2 on the left. Top one has the thick rectangular peened pommel, bottom the thin pinned pommel. Look at the difference in the location of the fuller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorin6 Posted June 29, 2015 Share #8 Posted June 29, 2015 Does anyone know what the light gray paint signifies? I was told at one time that the pommel was painted gray when the knife was issued to aviators, but I have no idea if that is true. The one I've shown above supposedly came from the seller's grandfather, who was a B17 pilot possibly in the Pacific. Of course, the knife would not have been issued to him, but he certainly could have traded for it from a Naval or Marine aviator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dustin Posted June 30, 2015 Share #9 Posted June 30, 2015 Your welcome Gary, my pleasure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
etienne Posted June 30, 2015 Share #10 Posted June 30, 2015 Hello, Gary, do you have the other variation of the single-side marked Kabar, without "Olean NY" on the blade ? Regards, E Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bayonetman Posted June 30, 2015 Author Share #11 Posted June 30, 2015 Hello, Gary, do you have the other variation of the single-side marked Kabar, without "Olean NY" on the blade ? Regards, E Yes, the 7 marking variants that I have now are: 1. KA-BAR over OLEAN, N.Y. other side USN 2. Missing 3. KA-BAR other side blank 4. KA-BAR other side USN 5. KA-BAR other side USN MK2 6. KA-BAR guard marked USN USN 7. Guard KA-BAR guard other side USN 8. Guard KA- over BAR guard other side USN over MK2 And I would not be greatly surprised to find another marking variation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sactroop Posted June 30, 2015 Share #12 Posted June 30, 2015 Would variations in the tang shape, (round vs. rectangular), be another consideration? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bayonetman Posted June 30, 2015 Author Share #13 Posted June 30, 2015 Would variations in the tang shape, (round vs. rectangular), be another consideration? Yes, the round tang, small rectangular tang, long rectangular tang and pinned tang. I refuse to try to get into all of those versions, when combined with the markings and the grip shape, it makes for a lot of variations. This shows the min/max of the grip diameters in my collection. The later ones seem to be "fatter" than the earlier ones, although this is not consistent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
etienne Posted July 20, 2015 Share #14 Posted July 20, 2015 Dustin, I again have to thank you for your assistance and willingness to share the information that you have worked hard to accumulate. I will certainly add this information to my file on the USN Mark 2 knife. My father brought home his USN Mark 1 and Mark 2 knives from his tour in WW2 with the SeaBees and that is what got me interested in blades 60+ years ago. The Mark 2 has always been of serious interest to me, but it has only been in the last 20 years or so with the spread of the internet that I have been able to learn about them in more depth. So far I have 14 of the 15 marking variations that I know exist - 3 Camillus, 1 Pal, 3 Robeson and 7 of the 8 Ka-Bars. Over half have came from Vets and several of the others from members of this forum. The only one I am missing (that I know exists) is the one marked Ka-Bar over Olean, N.Y. on the left ricasso and nothing on the right side. Still on the hunt. Hello Gary, I'm wondering if there is 2 or 3 variations of the single-side marked Kabar's : with Olean N.Y. and round tang, with Ka-Bar only and round tang and Ka-Bar only with recantgular tang ... not sure about the last one, I may be wrong about this one I have the first two variations, here is the one you're looking for, I guess ... E Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bayonetman Posted July 20, 2015 Author Share #15 Posted July 20, 2015 Etienne, that is indeed the one I need to finish the set of markings. Tang style and pommel thickness add all kinds of variations, and I don't really plan to try to get them all, although I won't pass one up if I see it and the price is right. I THINK the thin pinned pommel is only found on the late versions, probably the guard marked ones. And of course if you get into the Marine marked ones that adds even more variants with the various red and black spacers in the grip. I have 1 USMC Ka-Bar which came from a local vet, don't plan to actively collect the Marine versions. Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocksome Posted August 6, 2015 Share #16 Posted August 6, 2015 Pardon me, I don't mean to hijack this thread, but why did the navy paint the hard scabbards grey ? Is it a navy color scheme like army is usually green?? Boy, I have a lot to learn. This thread has really been informative too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camillus Posted August 6, 2015 Share #17 Posted August 6, 2015 I think it is a navy color Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bayonetman Posted August 6, 2015 Author Share #18 Posted August 6, 2015 Certainly not hijacking, and a question that I have never found a definitive answer to. As mentioned by Camillus, it is close to the Navy Battleship grey color. It is a pretty close match to the grey uniform which was used from 1943-49, although the scabbard has a slightly greenish tone when compared. However, the grey uniform was basically restricted to officers and petty officers (and I think for awhile cooks and mess stewards), who would not have been as likely to carry a knife. The photo shows it on a 1944 dated Ensign's jacket for a color comparison. So I really don't have a good solid answer, but I am open to suggestions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camillus Posted August 6, 2015 Share #19 Posted August 6, 2015 the reason I suggested it was a navy color is because much of the navy's equipment is paint gray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocksome Posted August 7, 2015 Share #20 Posted August 7, 2015 Makes sense to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BROBS Posted August 7, 2015 Share #21 Posted August 7, 2015 Certainly not hijacking, and a question that I have never found a definitive answer to. As mentioned by Camillus, it is close to the Navy Battleship grey color. It is a pretty close match to the grey uniform which was used from 1943-49, although the scabbard has a slightly greenish tone when compared. However, the grey uniform was basically restricted to officers and petty officers (and I think for awhile cooks and mess stewards), who would not have been as likely to carry a knife. The photo shows it on a 1944 dated Ensign's jacket for a color comparison. So I really don't have a good solid answer, but I am open to suggestions. Nayy Gray small.jpg Actually there was a grey enlisted jumper for a short while... -Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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