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Advice Needed-90th Fighter Squadron Emblem


R. Watkins
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R. Watkins

Both of these insignia were displayed by the 90thFtrSqdn during WWII, the 'boxing bear' design actually

approved by the Heraldic Section 19 Jan 1945.

 

I believe the 'battling bunny' emblem (nickname 'Sluggo') was an earlier design the 90thFS unofficially

adopted before being deployed to the CBI with the 80thFtrGp, but have yet to locate anything concrete

that either supports or repudiates this position.

 

If anyone has any information and /or photos relating to either of these designs I would like to hear from you.

 

Thanks,

Bob

 

post-6249-0-66302600-1433346940.jpg

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Johnny Signor

Bob, not much help , but I've seen a photo "somewhere" of the Bunny on the cowling of a P-47 ........

But have seen both in use as either emblem or patches ........

post-2068-0-61009200-1433352430.jpg

post-2068-0-67919000-1433352445.jpg

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R. Watkins

Hey Johnny,

 

Thanks for weighing in on this topic.

 

I have a CBI deployment photograph showing the 'Sluggo' emblem affixed (via a dry transfer decal)

to the side of a NMF P-47 assigned to a Lt. Weston, but the photo is not dated.

Although this image validates the use of the 'Sluggo' design, it doesn't help with the actual timeline issue,

and of course the USAF records for this unit do not contain anything relating to 'Sluggo' due to the fact

that this design was never approved.

It's possible this was an alternate design submission that was simply adopted for use by various squadron

pilots as a matter of personal preference, but I haven't had any luck trying to track down this possibility either.

 

Bob

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doinworkinvans

Dave has this for sale on his website and lists it as 1st variation.

 

SOURCE: MAA

 

 

90th%20FS.jpg

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R. Watkins

Dave has this for sale on his website and lists it as 1st variation.

 

SOURCE: MAA

 

 

This is the only emblem on file with the AF.

It was the official (approved) insignia for the 90thFtrSqdn, but the 'Sluggo' design did exist

and fits, somehow, into the WWII history of this unit.

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Both patch designs are still used today by the 90th Flying Training Squadron. The "Boxing Bear" patch like above was approved 1/19/45 for the 90th Fighter Squadron (Single Engine) which inactivated on 11/3/45. The "Boxing Bugs"patch is the first design used prior to 1/19/45. I do not know when the "Boxing Bugs" patch was approved or even if it ever was.

 

Lineage of the 90th:

- 90th Pursuit Squadron (Interceptor) 1/13/42

- 90th Fighter Squadron 5/15/42

- 90th Fighter Squadron (Single Engine) 7/1/42 to 11/3/45

- 90th Flying Training Squadron 5/25/72 to present

 

Mark

post-1786-0-01392900-1433374851.jpg

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R. Watkins

Both patch designs are still used today by the 90th Flying Training Squadron. The "Boxing Bear" patch like above was approved 1/19/45 for the 90th Fighter Squadron (Single Engine) which inactivated on 11/3/45. The "Boxing Bugs"patch is the first design used prior to 1/19/45. I do not know when the "Boxing Bugs" patch was approved or even if it ever was.

 

Lineage of the 90th:

- 90th Pursuit Squadron (Interceptor) 1/13/42

- 90th Fighter Squadron 5/15/42

- 90th Fighter Squadron (Single Engine) 7/1/42 to 11/3/45

- 90th Flying Training Squadron 5/25/72 to present

 

Mark

Mark,

 

Thanks for the input. I didn't know that both of these designs were still in use today.

 

The problem with establishing the timeline for these two emblems comes from the fact that because the 'Sluggo' (Boxing Bugs)

design was never submitted for official review, it never existed as far as the USAF/WWII history is concerned.

There is nothing in the 90thFtrSqdn nor the 80thFtrGp's official files relating too, or even mentioning, the 'Sluggo' insignia.

We may know it existed, but without a 'paper trail' to determine its factual history, we're left with a lot of guess work and conjecture.

 

Bob

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Here is an image from my 80th Fighter Group collection of Maxwell Glenn of the 90th FS with the bunny patch. The photo did not scan very well the scanner is being difficult. Photo actually a lot clearer.

 

I believe the photo was taken in the CBI.

 

 

post-154437-0-73572300-1433376753.jpg

 

 

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R. Watkins

Here is an image from my 80th Fighter Group collection of Maxwell Glenn of the 90th FS with the bunny patch. The photo did not scan very well the scanner is being difficult. Photo actually a lot clearer.

 

I believe the photo was taken in the CBI.

 

 

attachicon.gifMaxwell Glenn.jpg

 

 

Thanks much for posting this photograph.

 

This is one of the best images I've seen that shows an actual uniform application of the 'Sluggo' emblem.

I agree with your speculation that this snapshot was probably taken during the squadrons CBI deployment.

 

Would there happen to be a date anywhere in the text to indicate a time frame of this photo?

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Bob, no date - but should have taken the probably out of the sentence in that I fairly sure that this image and the 70 + other images were the 80th FG officer file photos - majority of the officers are holding placards with there serial numbers.

 

Dave

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Johnny Signor

I was told by someone "in the Know" the bear wasn't "approved" until 1945 , and another person also said Bear was second design ..............

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R. Watkins

Bob, no date - but should have taken the probably out of the sentence in that I fairly sure that this image and the 70 + other images were the 80th FG officer file photos - majority of the officers are holding placards with there serial numbers.

 

Dave

Thanks Dave,

 

Don't you just hate it when they don't make a note of names & dates on the back of photo's?

 

Bob

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R. Watkins

I was told by someone "in the Know" the bear wasn't "approved" until 1945 , and another person also said Bear was second design ..............

Johnny,

 

The 'Boxing Bear' was approved by the Heraldic Section/Quartermaster Corps on 19 Jan 1945.

At that point in the war it took upwards of seven to twelve months from the time a design

was submitted for it to be reviewed and either approved, revised or rejected.

 

If the 'Bunny' design existed prior to the 'Bear' emblem, no one ever bothered to submit it for

review by the Heraldic Section.

 

Bob

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Bob,

 

Not sure if this helps, but I have a grouping to a guy that flew with the 90th FS in 1943 before being rolled over to the 23rd FG. Within his trunk grouping was the rabbit version of the patch. I would therefore assume the rabbit was the earlier design. Looks like the consensus was leading that way anyhow.

 

Here's his patch.......

 

JD

 

post-2901-0-36701600-1433427647.jpg

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R. Watkins

Bob,

 

Not sure if this helps, but I have a grouping to a guy that flew with the 90th FS in 1943 before being rolled over to the 23rd FG. Within his trunk grouping was the rabbit version of the patch. I would therefore assume the rabbit was the earlier design. Looks like the consensus was leading that way anyhow.

 

Here's his patch.......

 

JD

 

attachicon.gifrabbit.jpg

JD,

 

Your posting is very helpful.

 

Having a time frame of service to go with the "Sluggo' emblem goes a long way in supporting

the position that the 'Bunny' design was in fact the 90thFtrSqdn's first (albeit unapproved) insignia.

 

Thanks much for posting both this image and background info.

 

Bob

BTW-That's one great looking patch!

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Johnny Signor

Bob , what I was trying to convey is that wether or not the Bunny was submitted for "approval" of which we both know many were not but were still used anyway , was that I've been "told" that the Bunny was the first emblem before the Bear , nothing in photographic proof to 100% confirm it , but at least it's a start and most are saying 1945 for the Bear ...........

The Bunny most likely started stateside and then they change over to the Bear once in Combat zone(CBI) .....

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R. Watkins

Bob , what I was trying to convey is that wether or not the Bunny was submitted for "approval" of which we both know many were not but were still used anyway , was that I've been "told" that the Bunny was the first emblem before the Bear , nothing in photographic proof to 100% confirm it , but at least it's a start and most are saying 1945 for the Bear ...........

The Bunny most likely started stateside and then they change over to the Bear once in Combat zone(CBI) .....

Gotcha Johnny!

 

The 'Bunny first' scenario seems to be the prevailing thought.

I'd really like to come up with some 'carved in stone' proof of this before I put it in print.

 

A Field Fragmentary Order or even a dated period photo would be like mana from heaven at this point.

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Johnny Signor

yeah , Bob you just got to keep plugging on the searches , hopefully someone of this forum or from your other posts will come up with the "Set in Stone" image !!!!

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Bob, this does not nail down the date of the image I posted but Maxwell Glenn transferred to the 459th Fighter Squadron. Checking the 459th history Glenn does not show up in the initial transfers into the squadron in October 1943 but he does record his first aircraft destroyed (ground) while in the 459th as December 26, 1943. I am of the opinion he would not put the 90th patch on after that date but would option to the 459th Twin Dragon patch.

Hope this helps.

Dave

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R. Watkins

This information is very helpful. While not establishing a definite date for the 'Battling Bunny' insignia, we at least now have this pilots

unit assignment history to help establish something of a timeline for this design.

 

After looking at Boody's brief bio, and his transfer to the 443dTrCarrGp (c.late 1943-early 1944), it's apparent that the 'Sluggo' emblem

pre-dated the 'Boxing Bear' design.

 

Given the turn-around time it took for the Heraldic Section to approve/deny emblem requests during the war, the 'Bear' design probably

was shipped off to Washington just around the time Boody left for duty with the 443dTCG.

 

Thanks much for posting this bio.

Bob

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