WW2 Navy AMM3c - what medals would be awarded?

[doinworkinvans]

Morning!

 

As some of you know I am in charge of our family get together this year and I am honoring my uncle was MIA then KIA in 1942 when he did not return from scouting.

 

He was AMM3c aboard the USS WASP CV-7 with VS-72.

 

I am hoping to track down his "actual" medals at the reunion - hopefully not too late

 

But in the mean time, what would have he been awarded up until his death?

 

I am assuming the following:

 

American Defense (enlisted in 1940)

American campaign

Pacific campaign

Good Conduct? (Not sure the criteria)

Purple heart (posthumous)?

 

Thanks guys!

 

-Daniel

 

[Woodymyster]

My grandfather was also on the first Wasp. Remember that the Wasp was running escort and ferry missions for the British before we entered the war. So if your Uncle was assigned to the ship before the war, he would have a star on his American Defense ribbon and an "A" appature for his American Defense medal. The Wasp also ferried british ships to Malta, and I believe a battlestar on the the european/med/middle east ribbon was awarded. When the Wasp was sunk Sept 1942, she had earned one battle star in the pacific for actions at Guadalcanal. My Grandfather was fished out of the the water with a broken back after she had sank. After treatment he was assigned to a cruiser stationed in the mediterranean. So, I dont know how he obtained a second pacific battle star. Regardless, 1946, his discharge papers read:

Victory medal

pacific medal, 2 stars

American medal

Euro medal, 3 stars

Purple Heart

good conduct

American Defense, 1 star

 

This also matches his ribbon bars that we still have. I hope this helps.

[doinworkinvans]

Man...how cool to finally meet another person with WASP family member. Even better that you still have his personal items. I have yet to see any "period" items from the WASP. It is a pleasure to speak with you. I really appreciate your help.

 

I would wonder though if we would have the WW2 victory since he died before the WASP was sank and way before the end of the war?

 

Thank you again and would love to hear more about the WASP if your grandfather shared anything.

 

Daniel

[BROBS]

As long as he died during the duration of WW2 he would have posthumously been eligible for the Victory medal.

 

-Brian

[Woodymyster]

I felt exactly the same way writing that post. I have alot of material from that ship from reunions and such. Obviously most of the original period items went down with the ship. Is there anything in particular you are looking to find for your uncle? Vs-72 would have placed him in a Duantless correct?

[Dave]

My dad's stepfather was also on the first Wasp when she went down. My aunt has all of his medals, but from memory, they are the same as what woodymyster describes (though I recall only one star on the EAME...but I could be wrong.) Even though he was really badly beaten up in the sinking (he was smashed by a flying watertight hatch and spent the next year in the hospital) he never received a Purple Heart for it.

 

As far as your uncle was concerned, a Purple Heart may or may not have been issued. I wrote about a guy in my book who (they assume) ran out of fuel while searching for a U-boat. Because his death was considered "non-hostile" (even though he was searching for a U-boat that was known to be in the area, and it was a combat area that cost the lives of several of his fellow pilots that day) he did not receive a Purple Heart. You'd have to pull his service record to find out for sure.

 

Dave

[Woodymyster]

My Grandfather served on CL40 in the Mediterranean for the remainder of the war after he was discharged from the hospital. That is how he has 3 stars on his EAME instead of 1.

[MWalsh]

Personally, I think that one thing which would be really nice to also display, assuming he rated them, would be a nice set of WW2 era US Navy Aircrw wings.

 

They are very reasonably priced usually, and also a pretty quick visual reminder of what his job was, and something usually quite quickly recognized by non military types.

 

I sure hope your extended family has things from his service tucked away and that you can get them. Sounds like in your hands would be the perfect place for them.

[doinworkinvans]

Thank you for all the comments and encouragement! I sure do hope I can track things down over the next couple of weeks. I have found a family memeber who remembers them, and thinks they may have them burried somewhere.

 

I do beleive he was in a Dauntless, yes.

 

I am attaching the ships diary which mentions him not coming back from the morning flight. My uncle was Oliver Peele (spelled wrong on diary)

 

I normally get my records from Geoff at Golden Arrow for my AAF requests. Where is the best place to start for Navy?

 

-Daniel

[doinworkinvans]

So if he was listed as gunner, would I need the Navy gunner wings or just what? Should I even put them with the display if i am not even for sure he had them? I'm not even really sure what wings to look for....Im a Navy newbie here

[Dave]

 

I normally get my records from Geoff at Golden Arrow for my AAF requests. Where is the best place to start for Navy?

 

-Daniel

 

From Geoff as well. He did all the record pulls for my book, so he is WELL acquainted with the Navy side!

[doinworkinvans]

Sweet - thanks Dave.

 

Just requested it from him. Hopefully he can find something before June14th!

[BROBS]

It shouldn't take that long I wouldn't think.. took about a week for one I just did.

unless he's gotten more busy since then.

 

as for gunner insignia... he would have wore an aircrew wing and an aerial gunners or gunners mate striker on his sleeve.

I'm not sure if he would have had any stars on the wing.

 

-Brian

[doinworkinvans]

Could someone show me an example of both and which would be more applicable to a Navy blue jumper

[BROBS]

both would have been worn.

 

the wings are not specific to crew members.. the striker shows their specialty.

 

-Brian

 

 

[doinworkinvans]

thank you to all who have responded and helped on my research of my uncle

 

I got his records back from Geoff and there was about 70 pages of info, some of which was very informative.

 

However, on the issues of awards/medals, this was the only page that was provided.

 

Looks he was awarded much less than I originally thought or was posted here....

 

......any thoughts on why he was awarded what he was or why he was not?? What was the deal with the purple heart? Did they

not award to MIA soldiers who were later KIA??

 

Daniel

[29navy]

Thing with the purple heart, if he was not shot down by the enemy, then it was a non-battle casualty. Thus not eligible for the PH (as I understand it). The Good Conduct Medal was for 4 years, which he didn't have. He should have the Pacific Theater medal and American Defense medal..

[pararaftanr2]

Daniel,

You may want to reconsider including the combat aircrew wing and airgunner distinguishing mark in your display, as neither were authorized until after the loss of your uncle. They did not exist until February 1943. He would, however, have worn his rating of AMM3C on his jumper.

Regards, Paul

[Dave]

 

 

......any thoughts on why he was awarded what he was or why he was not?? What was the deal with the purple heart? Did they

not award to MIA soldiers who were later KIA??

 

 

 

 

As I read it, he didn't go MIA due to hostile action. Thus, he was never declared KIA, and thus, no Purple Heart was awarded.

 

I wrote about a pilot who had a similar experience. His last words to the ship were that he was running low on fuel. He never returned to the ship, so it was assumed he ran out of fuel, ditched, and was never recovered. Thus, he was not considered KIA and there was no Purple Heart. In an interesting twist, there were U-boats in the area and they were known to shoot down scouting aircraft (two of his squadron mates died that way in the pursuit of the same U-boat.) The question remaining was if he might have been shot down by a U-boat. However, since the U-boat was sunk without survivors, there was no one to report whether or not that was the case. So he could have likely been KIA...but as far as the Navy was concerned, he ran out of gas and became an unfortunate non-hostile casualty of the war.

[doinworkinvans]

Thanks fellas, that helps clear it up a little.

 

There is another page which gives a little more clarity about that day...it says in part that he was noticed by the squadron after their sector search that the plane he was in, pulled up and out of formation and wasnt seen again. And no radio call was made either. So there really is no telling what happened. They did their search and then afterwards did some practice dive bombing. After this was when he disappeared. We will never know I suppose.

 

His plane number was No. 03320....I had never known this before now. Is there a way to search Navy planes. I am assuming it was a Dauntless as I believe that is what the VS-72 flew.

 

Thanks so much for all the help, it means alot.

[doinworkinvans]

Daniel,

You may want to reconsider including the combat aircrew wing and airgunner distinguishing mark in your display, as neither were authorized until after the loss of your uncle. They did not exist until February 1943. He would, however, have worn his rating of AMM3C on his jumper.

Regards, Paul

 

 

Paul thank you for the heads up. I had decided not to display this just based on I wasnt sure about it to begin with but now this confirms. Also, I was able to find a plain jumper with the correct rate on the sleeve for display purposes. Thanks again,

Daniel

[unclegrumpy]

In looking him up online, he is alternatively listed as being MIA or KIA.

 

It would be helpful in this case if the Navy had a listing like the Army's...one that indicates what they changed his MIA status to on the finding of death. That would tell us if he was considered to have died non battle or was KIA.

 

Given you have his file, I think if you look again, you should have his official finding of death. That should tell you what they determined. Not seeing any thing related to a PH pretty well answers that question, because there would be a number of pages related to one in the file.

[doinworkinvans]

Grumpy,

 

They changed it from MIA to KIA one year later on July 10, 1943. I assume that is what you mean by official? I have attached what I would assume would be the final and "official" confirmation of death per regulations.

 

 

[unclegrumpy]

They changed it from MIA to KIA one year later on July 10, 1943. I assume that is what you mean by official? I have attached what I would assume would be the final and "official" confirmation of death per regulations.

 

 

 

This letter confirms exactly what Dave was saying. If you notice, nowhere does it say "Killed in Action" or in combat with enemy forces or anything to that effect. It simple says "deceased".

 

In cases where they had a pretty good idea of what happened....or at least the circumstances....they waited a year, and then changed the MIA status to a finding of death....which could be KIA or deceased.

 

I have run into similar instances in my research. Some where the deaths clearly occurred in a combat zone and under normal operations. I am not saying this is the case with this fellow....I don't know enough to know, but I do think in some circumstances the Navy was particularly tight with awarding the Purple heart.

 

In some cases, I have felt it seemed disrespectful to men that made the ultimate sacrifice.

[Wharfmaster]

The Navy took "Directly due to enemy action" very seriously for both KIA and WIA awards of the Purple Heart.

 

I have a group to an Armed Guard sailor that was injured saving a man's life in the water after their ship was torpedoed by a U-Boat. The Navy refused the award of the Purple Heart because they did not consider his injuries "directly" due to enemy action. He jumped overboard to save another man from being crushed between the vessel's hull and a lifeboat. The sailor did however receive the Commendation Ribbon for his bravery.

 

 

Wharf