SDC Posted May 22, 2015 Share #1 Posted May 22, 2015 I was "reading" a bayonet received a couple years ago from the CMP. It is an SA M1905 dated 1909, serial number 376,740, cut down to a knife point (Bowie?). I see the "AFH" on the tang indicating they did the mod, and hand-stamped numbers on the side of the guard which I believe is a Greek thing. I'm wondering about the "KM.10186" stamped next to the AFH on the tang that look much more well done than the Greek stamping. , Are these simply the stamp of some other owner along the way, or do they have any significance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bayonetman Posted May 22, 2015 Share #2 Posted May 22, 2015 This has shown up on some M1 bayonets, but the exact meaning is still unknown to me. The "best guess" so far is the the KM and number are for the German KreigsMarine (KM is a common abbreviation for their Navy) and that the bayonets so marked are from post-WW2 use by that organization. No proof of that has came to light so far to my knowledge. I have been looking for one of those for some time for my reference collection, so if someone knows of one for sale at a reasonable price, please let me know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDC Posted May 24, 2015 Author Share #3 Posted May 24, 2015 I guess my 100 year plus old bayonet has almost come full circle. Springfield MA, two world wars, German ownership (possibly), Greek ownership, and now back to a fellow born and raised 90 miles from Springfield. Thank you for the information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bayonetman Posted May 27, 2015 Share #4 Posted May 27, 2015 I have been informed by a reliable source that the KM (KriegsMarine) marking would not be a German Navy mark as it was not so named after WW2. Now called the Deutsche Marine according to my source. So I will have to say that I don't know what the KM mark stands for and what country used it. If anyone has a better suggestion, please pass it on. The only other one I kept a record on is a PAL M1905 shortened to M1 length, and is marked KM10058. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDC Posted May 28, 2015 Author Share #5 Posted May 28, 2015 The plot thickens ... Thank you for the added information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_B Posted May 29, 2015 Share #6 Posted May 29, 2015 Could it possibly be Royal Netherlands Navy (Koninklijke Marine)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bayonetman Posted May 29, 2015 Share #7 Posted May 29, 2015 That is a definite possibility as the Netherlands did have the M1 rifle for several years, and even purchased M1 bayonets in the 1950s from E&F Horster. I think I know a collector in Holland, will try to follow up on that. Thanks!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kilian Posted May 30, 2015 Share #8 Posted May 30, 2015 Could it possibly be Royal Netherlands Navy (Koninklijke Marine)?The Royal Netherlands Navy (Koninklijke Marine) did use this format (KM + number) for their numbering. Bayonets for the FAL rifle used by the Dutch navy were marked in the same way. For quite some time I have a strong feeling, but no proof yet, that there is a connection between Hoerster manufactured bayonets, Holland and Greece. Maybe Holland bought these from Hoerster, say in the 1950's and sold them later (1960's, after adopting the FAL rifle) to Greece. After WW2 the Dutch started with Lee Enfields, then moved to M1 Garands and M1 carbines, then to FAL and from the 1990's to Diemaco M16 clones. The latter first with US M9 bayonets and now with an Eickhorn bayonet. I can confirm the term Kriegsmarine was not used in Germany after WW2 and I would appreciate a few more pics of the bayonet in question, and its markings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_B Posted May 30, 2015 Share #9 Posted May 30, 2015 Hopefully, mystery solved. If so, I'm glad to have helped. Thanks for the comments Kilian. I'm not exactly sure why I thought this might be Royal Netherlands Navy, something about it rang a bell with me but I can't put my finger on why. I probably read something year ago about it. Anyway, interesting history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDC Posted May 30, 2015 Author Share #10 Posted May 30, 2015 Once again, thank you all for this information. Let me know what additional photos you'd like to see and I'll take them over the weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kilian Posted May 30, 2015 Share #11 Posted May 30, 2015 I guess we all know what a standard shortened M1905 (M1905 E1) looks like, so one pic of the bajonet next to its scabbard (should you have one) will do, to start with. Just to check there is nothing special or unusual here. Should we notice anything of special interest we'll ask for details. What makes this bayonet stand out from its many brothers and sisters is the markings and these are what I and probably others are interested to see. On the bayonet these are usually found on the ricasso of the blade and the grip area, such as the cross guard and the tang. I have not seen this bayonet type with markings on the pommel, but please check that area too. On the scabbard, should you have one, these can be found on the metal mouth piece, the back of the plastic scabbard body and there can be a metal scabbard tip reinforcement with markings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bayonetman Posted May 30, 2015 Share #12 Posted May 30, 2015 No real surprise, but the Dutch collector that I asked about these agrees totally with Kilian. Certainly glad to have this cleared up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDC Posted June 1, 2015 Author Share #13 Posted June 1, 2015 Here are two that show the bayonet overall, plus you should be able to zoom in on the ricasso for those markings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDC Posted June 2, 2015 Author Share #14 Posted June 2, 2015 Both sides of the tang. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDC Posted June 2, 2015 Author Share #15 Posted June 2, 2015 Hard to see but this is an HS up against the guard. Other than the markings shown on the original post, that's it. The scabbard is one of those E-US M7s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kilian Posted June 5, 2015 Share #16 Posted June 5, 2015 Thank you for the pictures. On my device I can not really read the Greek serial on the cross guard, but I take your word for it. Interesting bayonet as it served the US in two World Wars, then was supplied to The Netherlands, presumably under some military aid programm, then sold to Greece and then back in US collectors hands. I presume the markings on the grip area are standard US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bayonetman Posted June 6, 2015 Share #17 Posted June 6, 2015 Just another 2 cents worth, this is the first SA or RIA cut down that I have seen with the HS mark, which is commonly (in my experience) only found on PAL bayonets. Anyone else have a HS marked bayonet that is not a PAL? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDC Posted June 6, 2015 Author Share #18 Posted June 6, 2015 What does the "HS" Mark mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kilian Posted June 8, 2015 Share #19 Posted June 8, 2015 Gary's Bayo Points article mentions the HS mark: http://www.usmilitaryknives.com/bayo_points_23.htm I do not know if more information has come to light since. In my collection I have a 10 inch PAL M1 (made as 10", not a shortened M1905) with the HS mark, which I acquired in the late 1970's in a surplus store in Germany. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kilian Posted June 8, 2015 Share #20 Posted June 8, 2015 Pic. I'm beginning to wonder: is it HS or SH? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kilian Posted June 8, 2015 Share #21 Posted June 8, 2015 On an uncut 10" M1 by PAL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
remman Posted October 2, 2019 Share #22 Posted October 2, 2019 Found this thread while researching the pictured M1 bayonet. It is a cut down PAL 1943 done by AFH. At first glance it appears to be a typical Greek return but the number on the cross guard is not the normal letter followed by four digits. The number on this example in the format of KM0xxxx in a different font. Several of this style have shown up on Ebay recently. What I find interesting is that the bayonets being discussed in this thread have the number on the tang in the format of KM1xxxx. Could it be that my bayonet is of an earlier series used by the Dutch? Any further information or comments are welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spathologist Posted October 3, 2019 Share #23 Posted October 3, 2019 This has shown up on some M1 bayonets, but the exact meaning is still unknown to me. The "best guess" so far is the the KM and number are for the German KreigsMarine (KM is a common abbreviation for their Navy) and that the bayonets so marked are from post-WW2 use by that organization. No proof of that has came to light so far to my knowledge. I have been looking for one of those for some time for my reference collection, so if someone knows of one for sale at a reasonable price, please let me know. The font looks similar to that used on some HK weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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