Who wore aircrew wings?

[bdbill]

Hi,

I bought an Aircrew wing at an estate sale the other day along with a Dog tag. The dog tag belonged to a AAF pilot. My question, what crew members wore the aircrew wings? He flew a B-24, would any of the crew? Thanks in advance.

[cutiger83]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aircrew_Badge

 

The first version of the Aircrew Badge was issued by the Army Air Forces during the Second World War.

 

Anyone trained in flight operations was authorized to wear this badge, including pilots, bombardiers, navigators, flight engineers, radio men and gunners. The badge was also awarded to certain ground personnel at the discretion of their commanding officer. Non-crewmembers eligible for the badge were individuals with flying status such as aircraft maintenance supervisors and technical inspectors. For example, aircrew badges were issued to Automatic Flight Control Equipment (A.F.C.E.) and Bombsight Shop personnel and others essential to "keep 'em flying" who flew instructional and maintenance flights but who did not actually take part in combat missions during World War II.

[bdbill]

ok, so this probable was his pilot wings, thank you!

[BROBS]

no, that's an aircrew wing.

 

what makes you think he was a pilot?

-Brian

[bdbill]

I should have said that he was a pilot, wearing the aircrew wings.

[flyboy53]

Pilots don't wear aircrew wings. What verifies that this individual was a pilot?

 

If so, could this pair have belonged to a member of his crew or could he have qualified as a gunner?

 

In answer to your specific question about who wore these wings on a B-24? It depends on the crew assignment. Gunners traditionally had their own wings. Radio operators and B-24 flight engineers may have worn these wings because they may have been dual qualified as a gunner.

[bdbill]

He was Lt. Ruben Kaiser, 484th Bomber squadron 825th. Lots of info on him at the 484th website. He was involved in two crash landings. One of his crew did die when he hit a pit after bailing out. He was a ball gunner, and was buried the next day in Yugoslavia. I guess they could possible be his.

[pconrad02]

Additionally, Aircrew wing were worn almost exclusively by enlistedmen . I've never seen a ant evidence of them worn by a officer.

[cutiger83]

Additionally, Aircrew wing were worn almost exclusively by enlistedmen . I've never seen a ant evidence of them worn by a officer.

 

Would a warrant officer in WWII who was a pilot wear Aircrew wings or pilot wings? Some warrant officers were pilots in WWII. Correct?

 

Also, could pilots have been "authorized" to wear Aircrew wings but maybe not actually worn them but wore pilot's wings instead?

 

...Kat

[doyler]

Have a friend whos father was a gunner/flight engineer in WW2 in the pacific.Flew on B25s.Later he joined the Air Guard and became an officer.Seen pictures of him wearing both gunner or air crew wings in his officers uniform as well as pictures in the unit of others doing the same.I know this isnt on topic for WW2 but there is some intresting post war wear of wings.

 

I also have a glider pilots group.He served post war in the reserves and retired as a maintenance officer.He showed me his Lts.Cols. uniform and he had his glider pilots wing and Order of the orange cord on there.Was a great looking set.

[pfrost]

I think some of the confusion has to do with how the training process worked during WWII. In general, the majority of aviation cadets would have gone through 3 levels of flight training, basic, primary and advanced flight schools. I believe (but could be wrong) that aviation cadets were considered enlisted men. While going through basic and primary flight schools, they would have recieved training in things like arial gunnery and could have then become qualified to wear the gunner or aircrew wing. Once they finished advanced flight school and qualified for their pilot wings, they would have worn those. Cadets who washed out of flight school or chose to pursue other avenues and went to the navigation or bombarier schools would wear those wings.

 

Not all pilots were comissioned as 2nd Lts after completing the various schools. Some were made flight officers (equal to a warrent officer). An old pilot once told me that in his class they divided it up--1/2 got LT bars athe other half flight officer insignia.

A pilot wing would, of course, wear his pilot wings, but it is possible that during the course of his training during either basic or primary flight school, he would have qualified for the aircrew or gunner wings.

[BROBS]

interesting info Patrick... I had never even thought about that!

 

-Brian

[pfrost]

It is also entirely possible that a WWII pilot could have been called up during the Korean War in an non-flying or non-pilot role. I have heard of WWII officers that went back into the military as enlisted men and continued their carrer outside of being a pilot, either because the didnt want to fly or they no longer had the physical requirements (such as bad eyesight) to be a rated pilot. These individuals could have worn aircrew wings to reflect their new duties. Basically, a WWII aircrew wing is the same as a KW vintage aircrew wing.

 

I also have a group from a B24 pilot that includes a navigator wing, a couple of gunner and aircrew wings each, and an observer wing. I had always assumed that he just had picked up wings as keepsakes from his crew, but maybe he just wanted souvenirs? Who knows what people pick up and squirrel away.

[pfrost]

 

Would a warrant officer in WWII who was a pilot wear Aircrew wings or pilot wings? Some warrant officers were pilots in WWII. Correct?

 

Also, could pilots have been "authorized" to wear Aircrew wings but maybe not actually worn them but wore pilot's wings instead?

 

...Kat

 

Kat, I believe that I am correct in saying that a Flight Warrent Officer would have worn the wings he was qualified to wear, independent of rank. Remember, the USAAF had enlisted pilots from WWI up until WWII when the Flight Warrent Officer rank was developed. They wore pilot wings, even though they weren't comissioned officers.

 

Cliff and others probably know more about this than I do.

P

[cutiger83]

 

Kat, I believe that I am correct in saying that a Flight Warrent Officer would have worn the wings he was qualified to wear, independent of rank. Remember, the USAAF had enlisted pilots from WWI up until WWII when the Flight Warrent Officer rank was developed. They wore pilot wings, even though they weren't comissioned officers.

 

Cliff and others probably know more about this than I do.

P

 

Thanks so much. I was curious....Kat

[bdbill]

After some snooping around, I learned Lt. Reuben Kaiser enlisted in the Army, and rose up to be a pilot. I'm guessing that wasn't very common, but probably the reason why he had the aircrew wings.

[flyboy53]

Enlisted members did not exclusively wear aircrew wings.

 

For example, Major Clark Gable was a gunner first and an OCS graduate second. He actually flew aerial gunner missions earning one or more Air Medals and I think even outranked the pilot -- so he could have actually been the aircraft commander at least once.

 

Also, I'm of that era in the Air Force when there were still one or two enlisted gunners who ultimately became general officers and very proudly wore their gunner wings.

 

The only other option here is that this pilot qualified as a gunner at some point and may have been presented the wings -- but the likelihood of him actually wearing them is slim because the pilot wings would have trumped any other set of wings with the exception of something foreign. I am aware of a few examples of aircraft mechanics who qualified as gunners, flew missions and either earned aircrew or gunner wings in the field.

 

As for warrant officers, flight officers and pilot officers, yes they would wear the wings of their rating. Probably the most common of these were late-in-the-war aviation cadets who became pilots, bombardiers and navigators or had one or two different ratings and may have worn observer wings. Those wings and the rating they represented are probably the most interesting aircrew assignments of that era -- especially the aircraft they may have flown, like the P-61 or the B-32.

[bdbill]

I'm sure Lt. Kaiser never wore the aircrew wings once he became a pilot, he probably earned them early in his service, the reason why I ended up with them.

[Gary B]

As a side note, in some units, in the early part of the war, Aerial Gunners were commissioned as flight officers (they would have worn air crew wings). Later they were SSgts and towards the end of the war Cpls.

 

Gary B

[COOKIEMAN]

I think that it can be said that at least one mission in the AAF led to commissioned officers being awarded and wearing the Aircrew Wing - Aerial Photographers. Some years ago, I obtained a group of war time photos belonging to Lieutenant R.W. Neely, 9th Air Force. He may have been assigned to the 33rd Photo Recon Sq, 363rd Photo Recon Gp, 9th AF. The first photo depicts him

painting a mission mark on a B-25. The second picture is a studio portrait of him wearing his Aircrew Wings and two ribbon bars - Air Medal & EAME.

[BROBS]

great pics, Cookieman.

[gomorgan]

My late father in law was a Aerial Engineer on B-24's went to gunnery school and could of worn Gunner wings but preferred the air crew, felt it set them apart from from what he called passengers. Asked him why he didn't have a set of engineer wings and he said they came out late and he wasn't going to spend the money.

[will m.]

Great photos.........however the aircraft in the photo is a A-20 or very likely a F-3A, a photo-recon version of the A-20. Are there more photos of aircraft in this group??

I think that it can be said that at least one mission in the AAF led to commissioned officers being awarded and wearing the Aircrew Wing - Aerial Photographers. Some years ago, I obtained a group of war time photos belonging to Lieutenant R.W. Neely, 9th Air Force. He may have been assigned to the 33rd Photo Recon Sq, 363rd Photo Recon Gp, 9th AF. The first photo depicts him

painting a mission mark on a B-25. The second picture is a studio portrait of him wearing his Aircrew Wings and two ribbon bars - Air Medal & EAME.

 

[will m.]

Aircrew wings were authorized 4 Sept 1942 where as the Aerial Gunner wings were not authorized until 29 April 1943. The pilots and other officer crewmembers on bomber aircraft usually had flexible aerial gunnery training......the ones that I have talked with said that a graduation certificate for the course was issued.....no wings. Of course I would bet good money that there were exceptions................

 

Also some pilots tried to do some cross training of their crews on there on. I also think that this was done at unit level for some groups..........again things get very well "stirred" when you get down to how wars are actually fought.

[will m.]

Pretty sure she's an A-20......look at the armored windshield.......

Great photos.........however the aircraft in the photo is a A-20 or very likely a F-3A, a photo-recon version of the A-20. Are there more photos of aircraft in this group??