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Bluing of Officer EGA's


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#1 Belleauwood

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Posted 10 July 2008 - 03:17 PM

I beleived that the emblems are blued and not tarnished.
From 20" away, that are a very nice homogenous blue
with not "silvery" tarnish look. Any help on these? Era?

aaga__11_.JPG

Edited by Belleauwood, 10 July 2008 - 03:19 PM.


#2 Belleauwood

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Posted 10 July 2008 - 03:20 PM

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#3 Belleauwood

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Posted 10 July 2008 - 03:21 PM

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#4 Belleauwood

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Posted 10 July 2008 - 03:21 PM

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#5 Belleauwood

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Posted 10 July 2008 - 03:24 PM

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#6 Belleauwood

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Posted 10 July 2008 - 03:27 PM

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#7 teufelhunde.ret

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Posted 26 July 2008 - 09:33 AM

In a recent PM with Dennis, the topic of these unusual EGA's came up. They were originally placed in another thread and it was time to give them their own run. I am not familiar with the "bluing processes", therefore went to wikipedia for some education and information. Based on this info these may have been subject to the "cold bluing" process, thus the question beckons; was this something the maker was experimenting with OR an enterprising Marine adding character to his emblems?

From Wikipedia: There are also methods of cold bluing, which do not require heated solutions. Commercial products are widely sold in small bottles for cold bluing firearms, and these products are primarily used by individual gun owners for implementing small touch-ups to a gun's finish, to prevent a small scratch from becoming a major source of rust on a gun over time. At least one of the cold bluing solutions contains selenium dioxide, to accomplish the bluing. Cold bluing is not particularly resistant to holster wear, nor does it provide a large degree of rust resistance. It does, however, often provide a very good cosmetic touch-up of a gun's finish when applied and additionally oiled on a regular basis.

Cold bluing is often applied by first cleaning the steel area to be blued with alcohol, allowing the area to air-dry, touching a cotton swab in the cold bluing solution, applying one or more applications of the cold bluing compound to the steel being blued to match the rest of the hot blued finish, allowing the area to dry completely, and then using a good grade of gun oil to rub onto the cold blued areas, overlapping with the original hot blued areas. Provided regular oiling and rubbing is done, this method can provide adequate protection against rust for many gun owners.


The remainder of the information provided about the processes of bluing can be read here: http://en.wikipedia..../Bluing_(steel)

s/f Darrell

#8 Schnicklfritz

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Posted 26 July 2008 - 10:07 AM

I do a little Civil War reenacting. I recently cold blued the socket on my original P53 Enfield bayonet as originals were done this way. The cold blue finish is an easy process, but was not a very durable finish then or now. That said, the finish on the EGA's in question look to be cold blued when I compare the finish on my bayonet. You can achieve a color anywhere from a "blue" hue to a very deep blue, almost black, depending on how many applications of the compound you put on the object. The bayonet I did took 5 or 6 applications to get a deep blackish blue, but the first couple of applications were a light blue like pictured on the EGAs in question.

Another point to note on the EGAs is that the rope doesn't have a blued finish to it. So, would you lean towards the blueing being done during the manufacture of the EGA instead of an enterprising Marine doing it? Of course, the rope could be a replacement that was added after the EGAs were blued.

#9 usmcaviator

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Posted 26 July 2008 - 11:37 PM

To me, these look to have been a dress set that were blued. The back/inner side of the globes sure look dress to me. Dennis is there any way to look closer at the anchor ring on the hat device? I think I see gold under the rope. The posts also appear to have not been blued and appear like they may have some original dress coloring.

Mike

#10 Belleauwood

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Posted 27 July 2008 - 01:54 AM

To me, these look to have been a dress set that were blued. The back/inner side of the globes sure look dress to me. Dennis is there any way to look closer at the anchor ring on the hat device? I think I see gold under the rope. The posts also appear to have not been blued and appear like they may have some original dress coloring.

Mike


Mike , I'll get some photos posted today with some shots of the ring. I beleive that I read in Moran's book that they did blue these emblems. Are these Meyer? What time frame? Hoping WW1 or earlier. I beleive the rope is Gold / Gold Plated -

Thanks, Dennis

#11 usmcaviator

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Posted 27 July 2008 - 01:25 PM

Dennis,
I just had a conversation with Fred Briuer the other night, the author of the upcoming EGA book, and he brought up chemically treated dress emblems to make them service. It was mainly a practice that was done due to shortages stemming from WW1. I am sure that in areas where one could not get there hands on some service emblems, for whatever reasons, this practice was probably rare, but done by those who needed service emblems. After looking at yours I almost positive that is what was done with these, that is, converted to service by the Marine.

S/F,

Mike

#12 Belleauwood

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Posted 27 July 2008 - 04:00 PM

Mike, Thanks alot for your input - I fell 100% sure that they are a converted dress. I've also seen plenty of silver that has toned to a beautiful bluish purple finish but these appear to be purposely "darkened" -

aaca.JPG

#13 Belleauwood

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Posted 27 July 2008 - 04:01 PM

aaca__1_.JPG

#14 Belleauwood

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Posted 27 July 2008 - 04:05 PM

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DJ

Edited by Belleauwood, 27 July 2008 - 04:07 PM.


#15 Belleauwood

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Posted 27 July 2008 - 04:06 PM

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Mike and others: I'm really not good at dating the styles of EGA'a for the respective periods. I just try to acquire what "feels right". are these EGA's from WW1 or maybe earlier? Can anyone nail it down for me.

Thanks for all the help. BTW, I really like the EGA discussion and related reference sections!!

DJ



#16 usmcaviator

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Posted 27 July 2008 - 06:10 PM

Dennis,
WW1 dress sets that have been blued come from a shortage of material, but the blueing and alteration on these was probably spurned from economics, as I date these Great Depression era, late 1920's to mid 1930's. I have seen others done this way, but I do not have any in my collection as of yet.

These are nice Dennis. I would be proud to have them in my collection, as they tell a story of Marine resourcefulness in a tough time for many to make ends meet.

Let me know when I will be adding those to my collection, will you?? :)

S/F,
Mike

#17 bobgee

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Posted 28 July 2008 - 05:22 AM

Dennis,
I just had a conversation with Fred Briuer the other night, the author of the upcoming EGA book, and he brought up chemically treated dress emblems to make them service. It was mainly a practice that was done due to shortages stemming from WW1. I am sure that in areas where one could not get there hands on some service emblems, for whatever reasons, this practice was probably rare, but done by those who needed service emblems. After looking at yours I almost positive that is what was done with these, that is, converted to service by the Marine.

S/F,

Mike


Good observations, Mike. Am wondering what Fred Briuer's publication schedule for his book is at this time. Can we expect to see it anytime.....soon?
Semper Fi......Bobgee

#18 usmcaviator

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Posted 28 July 2008 - 03:00 PM

He is still in work on Volume 1, but wrapping it up. He is trying to incorporate some fresh information and images I just sent him of some recent acquisitions, as well as a couple other from private collections. I think new stuff keeps popping up for Fred, that delays the delivery to the publisher, making the work better and better. He is doing a tedious study. From the conversations I have had with him, I get the feeling that the book that you have all been waiting for will be worth the wait. He has studied the best collections of photos and EGAs out there (some that no longer exist) and documented all he has seen. Some of the stuff he has told me has been mind blowing and will hopefully answer many questions. I will ask if he has an estimated print date.
S/F
Mike

#19 teufelhunde.ret

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Posted 22 October 2009 - 10:44 AM

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