Right and Left facing Crows dated a year apart.

[hirsca]

Estate sale find today. I always thought that the left facing crows worn on the right sleeve were pre or very early WW2. When was the switch made? Also, I've not seen a date with a B in front of the date, only Leona. All comments much appreciated. Thanks, Al.

[TreasureHunter]

Using my guide website, 1941 they switched the direction and shape of the eagle.

[hirsca]

From a website I use as a guide.

 

Link is on a PM to me. Thanks, Al.

 

[hirsca]

Using my guide website, 1941 they switched the direction and shape of the eagle.

 

Thanks TH, that's a great reference site. If the switch was made in 1941, why would they still be making the left facing crows in 1943? Thanks again, Al.

 

[TreasureHunter]

I was thinking the same thing, maybe Leona is a private contractor or Navy had a grandfather period of wearing the other crows. I like how simple that webpage is and explains it all in a few paragraphs.

[WW2JAKE]

could someone link me the website?

[hirsca]

I was thinking the same thing, maybe Leona is a private contractor or Navy had a grandfather period of wearing the other crows. I like how simple that webpage is and explains it all in a few paragraphs.

 

Is the B just before the date also Leona or is it a different manufacturer? Thanks, Al.

 

[topdcnut]

Get Stacey's reference R and L facing crows existed until the late 40's

[Old Marine]

I have always understood that during WWII there were both left and right rates. The "right" rates, that is rates worn on the right sleeve were worn by the guys that would fight the ship or be on deck during battle. This would be guys like Torpedo men, Gunner's mate, Boatswain mates and others.

 

The other "left" rates would be below decks during a fight, this would be ratings like Electricians, Corpsmen, Mechanics, Cooks, Bakers etc.

 

As it was explained to me right rates were the combat arms guys and the left rates were the support personnel. That would explain the WWII manufacture of you left and right facing crows on your rates. During a fight the Torpedoman's battle station would be on topside on deck. The Electrician's battle station would be somewhere below deck.

 

Some time after the war they did away with the left/right rates and all were worn on the left.

[sigsaye]

The right arm rates were those that operated the ship. Boatswains mate, Gunnersmate, Torpedoman, Fire Controlman, ( sims guns)Quartermaster (navigation in the Navy) Sugnalman. These rates remained left facing until 1949. There are plenty of pinned posts going over all of tjis

[WW2JAKE]

The right arm rates were those that operated the ship. Boatswains mate, Gunnersmate, Torpedoman, Fire Controlman, ( sims guns)Quartermaster (navigation in the Navy) Sugnalman. These rates remained left facing until 1949. There are plenty of pinned posts going over all of tjis

now i understand lol

 

[David Minton]

The thread is mostly complete. All rating switched from right arm to left arm in 1941, except those in the Seaman Branch, which switched to left arm in 1948*.

 

The Seaman Branch from 1941-48 were:

• Boatswain's Mate
• Fire Controlman
• Gunner's Mate
• Mineman (created 1944)
• Quartermaster
• Signalman
• Torpedoman
• Turret Captain (merged into Gunner's Mate in 1948)

* From John Stacey's 1982 edition: The Change was dated 2/24/1948 with a one year transition period during which the right arm rates could be worn on the left sleeve, due to the supply of existing patches.

[hirsca]

The thread is mostly complete. All rating switched from right arm to left arm in 1941, except those in the Seaman Branch, which switched to left arm in 1948*.

 

The Seaman Branch from 1941-48 were:

• Boatswain's Mate
• Fire Controlman
• Gunner's Mate
• Mineman (created 1944)
• Quartermaster
• Signalman
• Torpedoman
• Turret Captain (merged into Gunner's Mate in 1948)

* From John Stacey's 1982 edition: The Change was dated 2/24/1948 with a one year transition period during which the right arm rates could be worn on the left sleeve, due to the supply of existing patches.

 

Excellent!

 

Thanks, Al

 

[David Minton]

Here are a couple of threads that discuss dates and manufacturer codes on rating badge:

 

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/66013-navy-rating-badges-signed-dated/

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=22885

[hirsca]

Here are a couple of threads that discuss dates and manufacturer codes on rating badge:

 

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/66013-navy-rating-badges-signed-dated/

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=22885

 

Thanks David. I saw in one of those threads a rate that had B1944 sewn on the reverse, identical the one I posted above. Elsewhere in one of the threads someone mentioned that the B stood for Blumburg as the manufacturer. Is that correct?

 

Al

 

[David Minton]

@hirsca: sorry, I'm not familiar with that one, so I will have to trust that other post.

[hirsca]

Here is a left facing rating badge that i picked up today. As you can see, I have cut it from the jumper along with the name of the sailor that was printed on the waistband of the jumper. The remaining part of the jumper was incinerated at the request (request?) of the war department since it was so mothed that it looked like a target from a machine gun practice range. Estate sale find. WW2 Veteran. Interesting thing, as pointed out in previous posts, the left facing rating badges were used well into and after the war. To boot, the rating badge was on his left sleeve, with the crow facing outward. Another one of those variables.

 

I have not detached the rating badge from the remaining cloth from the jumper to see what it looks like on the reverse. Has anyone ever seen a left facing rating badge with the makers ID sewn in on the reverse?

 

Thanks, Al.

[jguy1986]

My guess is you might find a pre-1941 manufacturing date on the reverse of that PhM3c rate.