Jump to content

Barograph and other Aviator's effects


mccooper
 Share

Recommended Posts

Recently picked up a grouping for an American aviator trained in Italy at Foggia. Primarily ID books, flight logs and paperwork. There was a graph in the collection. Can anyone tell me if it was a part of the training routine at Foggia? See picture in next post, and thank you.

 

mccooper

post-151387-0-98262000-1425326447.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Teufelhunde-

 

That was my first reaction: "Look, hon, it's a good EKG!" However, the previous owner indicated that he thought the graph to be a part of the actual flight training process (not medical). Hence my question. ???????????? Thanks.

 

mccooper

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, your initial caption was spot on. This is a printout from an aviation training device used by both sides during WWI. What this gizmo was called escapes my memory right now.

I know the Germans had this metering device mounted between the wings of their training planes. It was a small rectangular wooden? box that can occasionally be seen in period photos.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

mikes militaria

I did a quick google and called Pops who was in the Brown Shoe AF in the 50s, Air Traffic Control. The information I found basically stated this technology wasn't available in WW1 from EEGs, EKGs, Polygraph or really anything. It's not medical from 1918. The technology for recording flight data to this degree wasn't available at that time either. The soonest Pops could speculate this kind of technology was just beginning to become available for flight data wasn't until post WW2 and for this type of graph may be a stretch to make that fit. You really can't make a WW1 aircraft fit into the numbers on the graph, if a plane could go 5,000 feet it wasn't going to go 700 MPH. If it is altitude how would've they recorded it on a graph? The numbers on the graph don't really add up to any type of performance of a WW1 aircraft. If planes had a tachometer, they wouldn't record it in a graph. They couldn't.. Think about when the first computers were first used.WW2 or post war. Those weren't used for individual flight training.

 

I'm not in the Science or Medical field so I don't recognize if the graph paper is a Seismograph, Polygraph EEG or EKG. But it looks far too modern to be WW1 or even WW2 to me. The lower numbers on the sides and in the middle appear to be time of day. Whatever this graph is keeping track of it appears to have happened at 7:15.

 

My recollection of early flight training is a guy in a small box that looks like a cockpit with a stick and foot pedals to get used to the controls. The early trainers were the basic essentials for flight , no frills, bells or whistles. I don't see this having anything to do with WW1 flight training. I'm not an expert, MHO

Link to comment
Share on other sites

mikes militaria

cthomas, I think I'm about to learn something, I didn't see your post before I posted , I am very interested in learning what this was keeping track of and how it worked, and mostly what's it called.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's a chart recorder, looking a lot like a barograph, but the numbers don't work for that. I notice there is some French writing at each end of the chart: translating that might provide some details.

 

I suspect that the numbers represent altitude.

 

Here's a section of chart from a WWI German aircraft barograph - notice the similarities in the graph patterns:

 

bargraph2.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is a printout from a barograph or what the Germans called a "hohenschreiber"

I'd post some links but my Surface tablet won't let me. So I'll follow up later tonight...

- Chuck

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Gentlemen-

 

WOW! Thank you for the highly enlightening information concerning the graph - I appreciate your sharing the information, as it adds more interest to the grouping, which includes his flight training log in Fiats and Capronis. One of my collecting focal points is Americans in Italy, WWI, and having a good aviator grouping in a real plus. Thanks again!!

 

mccooper

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Quit teasing and post the rest ;)

 

Anything relating to pilots trained at Foggia is of great interest to me. I know this history rarely comes up for discussion, so I'll be mighty obliged if you could share more scans.

 

Regards,

Chuck

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Chuck-

 

Happy to do so, but need some help. When answering a post (as opposed to creating a new one), how do I attach a photo? I get a box asking for URL, then it freezes. This grouping is important for the Aero Club D'Italia booklets, and his Italian pilot's log with his daily training noted. He is definitely one of the Foggiani as he is listed in the 50th anniversary edition of the history of American pilot training at Foggia, Rome 1968. I have this grouping and a lovely large certificate of membership in the Aero Club D'Italia from another pilot. A friend in Italy has a complete uniform and grouping of yet another pilot, one of the 80 assigned to the Italian Air Service. As well, the US Navy had pilots stationed at Lago di Bolsena. In July of 1918, one Army and two Navy pilots made the first flight over the Alps in a Caproni (see "Dear Bert" by Edward D. Lewis).

 

coop

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Are you trying to post from a mobile device such as a tablet or smart phone? I was having the very same problem the other day when I tried replying from my MS Surface tablet. I can only guess it has to to with a Javascript issue. I had to use my trusty laptop to reply with attachments...

 

Take a look at the bottom right of the screen for the box labeled "More Reply Options". When you click on this, it will take you to another screen (any text will be saved) with an option to attach files located along the bottom left of the screen. Click on the box labeled "Choose Files" and navigate from there.

 

Again, if you are trying this from a tablet, you will most likely have the same problems noted earlier. It only seems to work when using either a laptop or PC. Hope this helps!

 

I'm looking forward to seeing more about this grouping!

 

Regards,

Chuck

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Microsoft's IE 11 has a bug. Try using another browser or Tapatalk.

 

 

Are you trying to post from a mobile device such as a tablet or smart phone? I was having the very same problem the other day when I tried replying from my MS Surface tablet. I can only guess it has to to with a Javascript issue. I had to use my trusty laptop to reply with attachments...

 

Take a look at the bottom right of the screen for the box labeled "More Reply Options". When you click on this, it will take you to another screen (any text will be saved) with an option to attach files located along the bottom left of the screen. Click on the box labeled "Choose Files" and navigate from there.

 

Again, if you are trying this from a tablet, you will most likely have the same problems noted earlier. It only seems to work when using either a laptop or PC. Hope this helps!

 

I'm looking forward to seeing more about this grouping!

 

Regards,

Chuck

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bob Hudson - thanks. That must be it...

 

'Coop' -

The Strickland group is indeed a treat. Thanks for those scans. What else have you learned about this aviator? Where did he go after training in Italy? Most (if not all) Foggians were retrained by the French once a pilot was assigned to a squadron on the Western Front.

I know much about Lt. Hopkins, though I am away from my archives right now. I can say for certain he was KIA while on a bombing run with the 96th Aero Squadron. Hopkins and Lt. Bertram Williams were both killed when their Breguet XIV went down in flames after battling some Fokker D.VIIs

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Chuck-

 

After Foggia, Strickland went to aviation camp Malpensa, now Milan's airport, for a short stay., then to England, and the Handley Page Training Camp, Aviation Field #1, Ford Junction, Sussex. He was there from 9/12/18 until 11/17/18. The back to the States and discharged at Camp Gordon 1/7/19, per his hand-written itinerary of his service. Attached is an interesting comment from his flight log.

 

coop

post-151387-0-82152200-1425588026.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Interesting log entry. I read it as "Went as observer in formation flying with Benedict over funeral services of Downs and Gilansbe"

I have no record of Downs/Gilansbe as being Americans.

 

Here's more research on Lt. Hopkins:

Lt. Stephen T. Hopkins (pilot) was KIA September 13, 1918 after returning from a bombing mission on the roads between Chambley and Mars-le-Tour. The observer, Lt. Bertram Williams, was also KIA when their 96th AS Breguet 14 (serial #4493) was shot down in flames near Charey . From the history of the 96th Aero Squadron:
“On the second day of the battle, the five available planes were ordered out to bomb the roads between Chambley and Mrs-le-Tour. Four planes left the ground, but one was forced to land in a nearby field. The other three continued the mission, and bombed the ammunition dump at Chambley from an altitude of 1000 Meters. The planes were surrounded at the objective by 15 enemy scouts. In the terrible fight which ensued, two planes were shot down, one went down in control, the second in flames. Lt. Gaylord, pilot and Lt. Rath, observer, managed to cut their way to the lines and landed safely at the airdrome. One enemy plane was shot down in the combat.”
Lt. Hopkins DSC citation:
Lt. Williams DSC citation:
Link to comment
Share on other sites

That is what I read as well. Benedict is probably Bob Benedict, listed by Strickland as one of his friends. While at Handley Page Training Camp, he lists first a Downdes, then a Downs. A prior entry in his flight log says that Downs was lost in fog, then his craft was found in the ocean by a patrol boat, so we know what happened to him. No mention before or after of a Gilansbe. I have sent an enquiry to the IWM in London, hoping ultimately to hear more. Thanks for the additional info on Hopkins; it is both ironic and sad that his 1918 membership in the Royal Aero Club of Italy was for 10 years!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...