jasonc Posted February 28, 2015 Share #1 Posted February 28, 2015 I recently bought this patch as a Vietnam-era theater-made, and I was hoping someone could help me confirm that. Thanks, Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonc Posted February 28, 2015 Author Share #2 Posted February 28, 2015 Back: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CUBUSMC Posted February 28, 2015 Share #3 Posted February 28, 2015 Honestly, I don't like it. One, Marine security guards do not wear patches, so it is totally a novelty and 2 it is too crude. I am a Marine and we like our novelties a little more flashy than that. It is def. foreign made, but I am guessing it is not too old. Just my 2 cents - Semper Fi - Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonc Posted February 28, 2015 Author Share #4 Posted February 28, 2015 I agree it is a novelty item, but as a former MSG, it reminds me of some of the stuff we had made to sell to raise money for the bar fund. Certainly isn't pretty, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwb123 Posted February 28, 2015 Share #5 Posted February 28, 2015 My first question would be why is the back stained? There is no sign the patch has ever been actually worn, so why would it be discolored. I think this is very likely a recent reproduction. If anything, the wartime embroidery tended to be a lot more refined and detailed. That is not to say that the design is not real... just that the patch is a more recent copy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patchcollector Posted February 28, 2015 Share #6 Posted February 28, 2015 I have one of these I purchased from a well respected seller.Mine is of similar construction.I believe I was told by the seller that these were used by Marine Security personnel guarding VIP structures such as Embassies,consulates,etc.. in the Thailand area during the Vietnam war era. I'm not sure whether or not the one posted here is authentic.It may be real,and the discoloring on the back may be from glue that someone used to affix it in a scrapbook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonc Posted March 1, 2015 Author Share #7 Posted March 1, 2015 There is some sort of glue or sizing on the back--it's holding down the cheesecloth & threads on the back. But it doesn't have any paper residue like you usually see on a patch out of a scrapbook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vintageproductions Posted March 1, 2015 Share #8 Posted March 1, 2015 It's a Philippine marine corps patch and is Philippine made Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patchcollector Posted March 1, 2015 Share #9 Posted March 1, 2015 That's odd.When did the Filipinos start wearing the US Marine design?I thought that the Philippine Marines emblem looked like these: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patchcollector Posted April 26, 2015 Share #10 Posted April 26, 2015 Here is a Marine Security Guard piece from my collection.Finally had time to dig it out.I acquired mine from a well respected seller that offers alot of VN war era Thai made pieces.He listed it as a Vietnam war era Thai made piece for the US Marine Embassy Guard Detachment in Bangkok.As you can see mine and yours are essentially the same except for some minor differences that can be attributed to the pieces being individually hand guided,machine made.I still think that the discoloration on the back of yours is most likely from some type of adhesive that the owner used to affix it to something.The Eagle/Globe/Anchor is the design for the USMC,so the piece is for the United States Marines.Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patchcollector Posted April 26, 2015 Share #11 Posted April 26, 2015 Back view Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonc Posted April 26, 2015 Author Share #12 Posted April 26, 2015 They do have a lot in common, down to the red eye and similar back threads. Even the weave of the base fabric looks similar to me. Thanks for the info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vintageproductions Posted April 27, 2015 Share #13 Posted April 27, 2015 If you want to believe they are Thai made for US embassy guards by all means do. But in the late 80's and early 90's I bought a pile of these in Subic Bay in some of the patch shops I bought out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patchcollector Posted April 27, 2015 Share #14 Posted April 27, 2015 If you want to believe they are Thai made for US embassy guards by all means do. But in the late 80's and early 90's I bought a pile of these in Subic Bay in some of the patch shops I bought out. So you are stating that these are Philippine Marine insignia?The design for the Philippine Marines is different.As I stated earlier,I bought mine from a well respected seller that you,and others have "endorsed" as being reputable.And he(actually I think it is a she) has been selling Thai made patches from the VN war timeframe for quite some time,so yeah,I'm going to believe what that seller stated over you.Sorry bout that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vintageproductions Posted April 27, 2015 Share #15 Posted April 27, 2015 So you bought it from MacNamee's market which is John & Karen O'Connor. They were selling the remnants of Tom Clinton's collection. Tom Clinton and I were in competition buying up the old patch shops in Asia in the 1980's and 90's. He got these in Subic Bay / Olangapo also, just like I did. So unless I am wrong with who the seller you bought them from is, and I am sure I am not, and unless you or he / she were in the Philippines buying these patches directly in the shops, like myself and Tom were, you may want to be careful believing what they stated over me. And to answer your other question, the basic patch you post for the PMC is what is worn on the pocket of their fatigue uniforms. There were / are many 100's of different patches they wear that had different designs on them, including USMC style emblems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patchcollector Posted April 27, 2015 Share #16 Posted April 27, 2015 I'm contacting the seller to find out what the deal is.I will post their reply here.Just wanted to add,if anyone has a Philippine Marine patch with the USMC design on it,I would love to see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugme Posted April 27, 2015 Share #17 Posted April 27, 2015 ...I'm going to believe what that seller stated over you.Sorry bout that. Yeah, because everyone knows that sellers are never wrong, never lie, never embellish, are never confused and never make mistakes. Further, we also know that the buyers never get confused, never make mistakes, never have bad memories and never admit when they are wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vintageproductions Posted April 27, 2015 Share #18 Posted April 27, 2015 I went through some of the items I bought from the same shop and can't find the ones I'm looking for, but did find these to show collectors that sometimes what they think is Thai made can just as easily be Philippine made. Also, something to add, if you have never been to the Philippines you may not realize that every building / shop / bar / anything will always have private guards out front that wear military looking uniforms and have their own special insignia. The area these patches came out of was near bars that catered to Marines, and would bet that the guards called themselves Marine Security Guards, as that is who they worked for and the job they were doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patchcollector Posted April 28, 2015 Share #19 Posted April 28, 2015 I'm still communicating with the sellers but I did want to post these thoughts in the interim: The differences in the backs of the patches in posts #11 and 18 are pretty clear.The Thai made patches in my collection all use the thin "netting",while the P.I made ones I have use the wider,thicker "netting",as yours shows.The patch that you are showing the back of looks to me to be the proper design for the Philippine Marines.I'd still like to see a Philippine Marine patch that has the USMC Eagle/Globe/anchor design. If anyone has one,please post it here.The story about the security guards wearing these because they worked at clubs that catered to Marines is a nice one,but is no more conjecture than the "USMC Embassy security guard" theory.In the Philippines,not every building/shop/bar has security.In fact the majority of them do not,as most of the "Mom and Pop" places cannot afford it.I've never seen a security person there wearing patches,and I can't help but think that if any US Marine saw anyone that wasn't a real Marine sporting their insignia it would probably be ripped off their chest real quick. Last but not least,yes I've been to the Philippines a "few" times.I married a Filipina there,own land in the P.I,and consider the Philippines to be my second home. So I know a bit about the place myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patchcollector Posted April 28, 2015 Share #20 Posted April 28, 2015 Just wanted to add;I found this pic of a used shirt being sold on eBay.The insignia design on the front looks alot like the design of my patch.Could just be coincidence,but I thought I would post it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matterhorn Posted April 28, 2015 Share #21 Posted April 28, 2015 So your patch is then made in Burma! Photographic evidence of the design being used for the embassy in Burma. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patchcollector Posted April 28, 2015 Share #22 Posted April 28, 2015 So your patch is then made in Burma! Photographic evidence of the design being used for the embassy in Burma. Hahaa,nice.Smartypants I think that the "Rangoon Burma" is the Embassy where whoever wore the shirt was stationed.I saw a few more while searching online that had other locations as well. Actually,I think it would be pretty cool if my patch was indeed made in Burma! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vintageproductions Posted April 28, 2015 Share #23 Posted April 28, 2015 I have also emailed the seller with a link to this thread so that he knows the whole story and not just part of it. If you have travelled to the Philippines as much as you say, then you know your statement is not completely true. Any business that handles lots of cash or valuables, has guards stationed outside the doors. Esp. in the Metro Manila area or any of the areas around the former US bases. These guards also wear military type uniforms, esp. camo pieces and wear as much insignia as a regular AFP member. As I do know this, and since you want to point out your bride being a Filippina, my step-mother is also, plus an uncle was the mayor of Lapu Lapu, and a god mother was on the Philippine Supreme court for military spending, so I am very familiar with the Philippines. When I was over there on buying trips we would hunt down every old embroidery shop we could find. I bought insignia from just after WWII all the way up to the 90's. My last trip over there I bought 25,000 military patches. I am very familiar with all types of Philippine embroidery, including ones that are often confused with Japanese and Thai embroidery styles. Lastly, I think you need to think about you respond to other members. Your name calling to member Matterhorn was uncalled for. You may think it is funny by adding the emicon, but if someone did this to you, you would run straight to someone on the ADMIN team ( which you have done in the past). So think about treating other members as you want to be treated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patchcollector Posted April 28, 2015 Share #24 Posted April 28, 2015 Yes,I've been to the P.I as "much as I say",and I believe what I stated is true.90% (or more) of the "businesses" in the P.I are the small "Mom and Pop" shops.If you were to get out of Manila more often and into the "provinces" you would find this to be the case.All the security guards I have ever seen simply wear civilian clothes.Never have I seen any wear any insignia.The only thing close to "military" that I've ever seen them wear is their "Aviator" sunglasses. I could start "naming names" and say stuff like my wifes' family has a street named after them,and their relatives are very well known and influential in their area,holding offices such as "Barangay" captains,etc..,but I feel this is just taking the topic off course. As I stated earlier,I'm awaiting a response to a second question I sent to the seller,and when I have an answer,I will post it here. If Matterhorn was offended by my "Smartypants' remark,I sincerely apologize.I thought that he was joking around with his post,and I was joking back with him. BTW,I have "run to the Admin Team" about a remark made about me once that I can remember. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vintageproductions Posted April 28, 2015 Share #25 Posted April 28, 2015 So did you hear back from the seller with your numerous emails to them yet? If you haven't, I have heard back from my one email I sent them, and they forwarded to me, the reply they had already sent to you. I will happily post it if you would like me to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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