Too Many Medals?

[lastpost]

I originally was going to post this on another forum’s thread dealing with medals being awarded by numerous non-military U.S. departments and agencies but thought that perhaps it would be a good start to new thread in its own right here instead.

 

There seem to be dozens of medal type awards being created by just about every U.S. government agency these days. It almost seems like it has become a “free fire” zone with no control over which even the most minor of governmental entities can create a whole series of medals to be awarded for who knows what. It seems to have grown to such an extent that it is entirely possible for agency hopping political hacks to end up with more medals than Audie Murphy. Why should some guy who works of the Department of Defense and never gets any closer to real combat than taking a daily air conditioned jaunt around the D.C. Beltway be getting a medal? Does having a fine career as a civilian at the Defense Logistics Agency really merit a medal? The U.S. Information Agency? The EPA?, The National Imagery and Mapping Agency?

 

Back in the at the turn of the 19th century the U.S. Army had barely begun to recognize the need for campaign medals and now is seems that every Federal, State and local administration/agency has jumped on the “lets give medals for showing up to work on time” band wagon. What ever happened to the days when exemplary civilian job performance got you a raise, promotion, a letter of commendation for your personnel file or a nice certificate of recognition/appreciation to hang on your office wall? Perhaps two weeks paid vaction time?

 

I remember meeting a WWII veteran of the Big Red One who served in North Africa, Sicily, Normandy, all the way through Germany and into Czechoslovakia – over three years of almost continuous combat and came out of the war with three ribbons on his chest to show for it – and he never did get the actual medals at all.

 

I do agree that the military should have medalic awards for civilian employees of the military who exercise their duties in combat type environments but no just for doing a good job. For example if a civilian employee of the Army/Navy/Air Force gets killed or wounded by the same roadside bomb that hits U.S. military personnel. In such cases they should be given some civilian version equivalent of the Purple Heart (which in itself should be reserved exclusively for the uniformed services.) Certainly an entire series of civil versions of such medals should be created and maintained for these sorts of eventualities.

 

This would be much in the same vein as the British George Cross which is the more or less a civilian version of the Victoria Cross. The George Cross is awarded for “gallantry award for civilians as well as for military personnel in actions which are not in the face of the enemy or for which purely military honours would not normally be granted”.

 

I never had to serve in the military pretty much because of the sacrifices of those who did and when I see a member of the U.S. military or veteran with rows of ribbons on their chest awarded for combat action the level of admiration I feel can not be expressed in words. What they did to get them is something truly special and I feel that the Department of This or the Agencey of That should get out of medal business all together and leave the medals to the real heroes who earned them in combat.

 

 

Your oppinions? You know you have mine.

[Jim Baker]

I think this trend is directly attributable to societies PC attitude and the rewarding of mediocrity. It's the same as getting a ribbon for finishing 5th, or 7th, or .......whatever.

 

Just make them feel good.

 

Unfortunately, those who truly deserve (and receive) recognition are lost in the mess.

[Bugme]

Upon advice of a good friend and moderator, I have deleted my original posting concerning this so as not to cause a problem by some of my statements making correlations. I humbly bow out of this discussion.

[cwnorma]

As a 22 year, recently retired, member of the USAF, I have long maintained that the US military should eliminate all ribbons and medals EXCEPT for campaign and gallantry medals.

 

In the Air Force at least, we have created a culture where the normal expectation at the end of a tour is a medal for "meritorious service." Frequently, the level of medal awarded is based more on the person's rank than their actual accomplishments.

 

This culture of PCS/Graduation awards begins upon graduation from AF basic training with the "awarding" of a Basic Training graduation ribbon. Not to be outdone, Officers are awarded the same ribbon for "graduating" OTS. Thus, everyone in the Air Force, except for the poor basic trainee, starts out with at least one ribbon. As Dash Parr says in the movie "The Incredibles;" "If everyone is special, then no one is."

 

Furthermore, the Air Force never met a ribbon it didn't like: The AF has two ribbons for overseas duty (long tour and short), ribbons for things all the other services issue badges for like marksmanship, or even ribbons for longevity (like a hashmark but for both officers and enlisted), two for organizational excellence (these can even be awarded with a "V" for valor), add in unit citations, and Professional Education ribbons, and the number of ribbons today's Airmen can get just for sucking in O2 piles up.

 

Most recently the AF began awarding a "Combat Action Medal" So once again, where another service would issue a badge, the AF issues a medal/ribbon.

 

If I had my way, I would have all the services adopt the following simple criteria:

 

Medals - Gallantry and Campaign only

Badges - Skills recognition

Hash marks (or none) - Longevity

Overseas Bars - Overseas Service (in a war-zone--being stationed in Okinawa shouldn't count)

 

When Teddy Roosevelt directed an overhaul of American Valor medals it was for this very reason--the criteria had gotten too watered down. When we feel the need to give people a medal just for showing up and doing their jobs properly, I feel there is something wrong with the system.

 

Chris

[BEAST]

Chris,

The only badges and ribbons the Air Force doesn't like are those awarded by other services! Some of us who came over from the Army drove them up the wall because we still wore our EIBs on our BDUs. It is my understanding that the Air Force wanted to maintain a sleek look originally and not have all of the badges that the other services did, except for pilots of course. However, now by the time an Airman leaves tech school, he/she looks like a Jr. General Patton. Some day I will have to post how I was awarded the Outstanding Volunteer Service Medal for collecting above and beyond the call of duty!

 

As a 22 year, recently retired, member of the USAF, I have long maintained that the US military should eliminate all ribbons and medals EXCEPT for campaign and gallantry medals.

 

In the Air Force at least, we have created a culture where the normal expectation at the end of a tour is a medal for "meritorious service." Frequently, the level of medal awarded is based more on the person's rank than their actual accomplishments.

 

This culture of PCS/Graduation awards begins upon graduation from AF basic training with the "awarding" of a Basic Training graduation ribbon. Not to be outdone, Officers are awarded the same ribbon for "graduating" OTS. Thus, everyone in the Air Force, except for the poor basic trainee, starts out with at least one ribbon. As Dash Parr says in the movie "The Incredibles;" "If everyone is special, then no one is."

 

Furthermore, the Air Force never met a ribbon it didn't like: The AF has two ribbons for overseas duty (long tour and short), ribbons for things all the other services issue badges for like marksmanship, or even ribbons for longevity (like a hashmark but for both officers and enlisted), two for organizational excellence (these can even be awarded with a "V" for valor), add in unit citations, and Professional Education ribbons, and the number of ribbons today's Airmen can get just for sucking in O2 piles up.

 

Most recently the AF began awarding a "Combat Action Medal" So once again, where another service would issue a badge, the AF issues a medal/ribbon.

 

If I had my way, I would have all the services adopt the following simple criteria:

 

Medals - Gallantry and Campaign only

Badges - Skills recognition

Hash marks (or none) - Longevity

Overseas Bars - Overseas Service (in a war-zone--being stationed in Okinawa shouldn't count)

 

When Teddy Roosevelt directed an overhaul of American Valor medals it was for this very reason--the criteria had gotten too watered down. When we feel the need to give people a medal just for showing up and doing their jobs properly, I feel there is something wrong with the system.

 

Chris

[ehrentitle]

Ya, Ya I'm right there with you brother! Lets get rid of all those pesky awards for chair-borne government bureaucrats that do nothing except ride in their air conditioned cars around the beltway. If a civilian at DLA figures out a way to save soldiers lives by improving the armor on a vehicle then lets slip a few more dollars into his pay or slide a certificate into his in-box, no need for additional public recognition in front of his peers, after all that medal will probably be slipped into the sock drawer once he gets home anyway. And if someone at NIMA figures out a way to use geospacial information to improve the accuracy of smart weapons or better guide UAVs, give him a firm handshake and pat on the back and slip a few more dollars into his pay. If someone at EPA saves a few thousand lives by eliminating exposure to some toxin or hazardous chemical offer him the corner office and a promotion.

 

While we are at it lets also get rid of all those useless peacetime military awards for achievement and service, lets just keep awards for valor. Next eliminate commanders coins and National Guard awards and save the military a bundle. Bronze stars, eliminate them unless there is a "V" device on them.

 

Before you complain about what's deserved and and what's not remember that old saying "Walk a mile in another man's shoes before you pass judgment." These honorary civilian awards in numerous gov't agency are but one tool in recognizing career civilians that make your sky's safer, guard your borders, protect you against many types hazards, and ensure that our military has the best equipment, doctrine and training in the world. Not everything revolves around pay and promotion in Gov't civil service.

[decwriter]

Regarding other ribbons, the Air Force is the least restrictive regarding ribbons from other services. They don't allow badges to carry over, such as the CIB and others. So, if one transfers from another branch into the Air Force with a few ribbons, they get to keep them. One restriction is the Navy Marksmanship Medals/Ribbons may only be worn if earned during prior service with the Navy. The same can't be said for the other services.

 

Randy

[Keystone]

My wife's great uncle served in the US Navy from before WW1 until WW2 and received the following medals:

Mexico Service, WW1 victory, WW2 victory and the Navy Good Conduct Medal. That's four medals for 28 years of service.

Tim

[Teamski]

I'm not really concerned about civilian medals. I don't see them worn, so it doesn't bother me that they have them.

 

I am, however, also concerned, as the others are above, about the excess amount of medals and ribbons now worn by the US military. I currently have 22 ribbons on my rack, many are redundant. For example, here are what I consider redundunt medals/ ribbons:

 

Armed Forces Expeditionary medal/ Armed Forces Service medal/GWOT Expeditionary medal/ AF Expeditionary ribbon.

 

Now come on. I have 3 out of 4 of the above, and only the first one would suffice. Ridiculous.

 

Next:

 

AF Good Conduct/Longevity Ribbon

 

Needless to say, the Good Conduct medal alone should suffice. By the way, the USAF JUST re-implemented the Good Conduct medal after it was discontinued for about a year. Why do away with one of the most traditional medals and keep adding junk medals and ribbons?

 

Next:

 

National Defense Medal/ GWOT Service medal/Air and Space Campaign

 

Redundancy defined! The National Defense medal was created for service during wartime. Then GWOTS comes out for the same thing. I have all 3. Dumb.

 

Add the 10 other unnecessary ribbons and we start looking silly. If you look to the British, they might have 5 ribbons or so, if they have been busy. Each of those ribbons mean a hell of a lot more to them, than these do to us. Of course, our medals are the cheapest pieces of garbage among all civilized nations that I know of and are unnamed. How embarrasing is that?!?

 

-Ski

[Jim Baker]

Before you complain about what's deserved and and what's not remember that old saying "Walk a mile in another man's shoes before you pass judgment." These honorary civilian awards in numerous gov't agency are but one tool in recognizing career civilians that make your sky's safer, guard your borders, protect you against many types hazards, and ensure that our military has the best equipment, doctrine and training in the world. Not everything revolves around pay and promotion in Gov't civil service.

 

I'm in Government civil service. After 20 years the plaques on the wall are nice, but that money sounds OK to me.

 

I don't think we're knocking "deserved" recognition. Are we??

[lastpost]

I'm in Government civil service. After 20 years the plaques on the wall are nice, but that money sounds OK to me.

 

I don't think we're knocking "deserved" recognition. Are we??

 

Not all all. I frimly believe that good work should be rewarded - but simply not by every agency imaginable issuing a whole string of medals. Give the guy a bonus, promotion or as one of the above posts said a new corner office. Hell during WWII doing a good job did not get guys many mdeals but it may have gotten them a 48 hour pass to Paris. Most of the GIs that I have talked to would have taken the pass.

[lastpost]

My wife's great uncle served in the US Navy from before WW1 until WW2 and received the following medals:

Mexico Service, WW1 victory, WW2 victory and the Navy Good Conduct Medal. That's four medals for 28 years of service.

Tim

 

Those service stripes say it all. In those days I think it was much more about "service" than feeling good about ones "self esteem".

[lastpost]

I'm not really concerned about civilian medals. I don't see them worn, so it doesn't bother me that they have them.

 

I am, however, also concerned, as the others are above, about the excess amount of medals and ribbons now worn by the US military. I currently have 22 ribbons on my rack, many are redundant. For example, here are what I consider redundunt medals/ ribbons:

 

Armed Forces Expeditionary medal/ Armed Forces Service medal/GWOT Expeditionary medal/ AF Expeditionary ribbon.

 

Now come on. I have 3 out of 4 of the above, and only the first one would suffice. Ridiculous.

 

Next:

 

AF Good Conduct/Longevity Ribbon

 

Needless to say, the Good Conduct medal alone should suffice. By the way, the USAF JUST re-implemented the Good Conduct medal after it was discontinued for about a year. Why do away with one of the most traditional medals and keep adding junk medals and ribbons?

 

Next:

 

National Defense Medal/ GWOT Service medal/Air and Space Campaign

 

Redundancy defined! The National Defense medal was created for service during wartime. Then GWOTS comes out for the same thing. I have all 3. Dumb.

 

Add the 10 other unnecessary ribbons and we start looking silly. If you look to the British, they might have 5 ribbons or so, if they have been busy. Each of those ribbons mean a hell of a lot more to them, than these do to us. Of course, our medals are the cheapest pieces of garbage among all civilized nations that I know of and are unnamed. How embarrasing is that?!?

 

-Ski

 

I posted a comment - possibly on another forum - reagrding the use of plasitc on the Purple Heart to replace the original fired enamel. This find a disgraceful situation. With all the waste in spending that this nation commits it is a travesty that our soldiers/marines/airmen/sailors who give their lives and bodies to this nation get a medal with plasitic on it.

 

As for the Brits you should see some of the comments and oppinions thay have regarding the U.S. ribbon/medal policy.

 

Here are a few comments form an austrailian site.Some of the commenst are from Americans and the Aussies are also facing the same situation in thier own military now.

 

"I was reading about one USAF female recently who is not yet 30 years of age and has 13 medals or service ribbons. What is her job? She plays the flute in the Air Force Band."

 

"Australia is now going down the same path. Medals were recently issued to men who did 94 days training at Wacol near Brisbane in the 1950s."

 

"My Grandfather, 40 years after his death, my uncle 14 years after his death and myself, 32 years after my service all recently became eligible for the Australia Service Medal 1945/75. It does not make sense to me."

 

"Sir, I'm in full agreement with you about the number of service ribbons that the U.S. issues. I have a brother-in-law who spent 21 years in the Air Force and never came near combat. The few times he was posted outside the U.S. he had his family with him. To see his uniform you would think that he was a Russian General. I think the only ribbon he did not get was for not getting the crabs in the out house."

 

"If you have to buy it you didn't earn it. I came back from Vietnam four ribbons and 100% disabled, so I think I have the right to speak up."

 

I suppose it could be looked at in the same way as infaltion in the economy. When there is too much money floating around it becomes worth less.

 

Sorry about the quality of the graphic below. It has been making the rounds for years it seems.

 

 

[pmargulies]

I originally was going to post this on another forum’s thread dealing with medals being awarded by numerous non-military U.S. departments and agencies but thought that perhaps it would be a good start to new thread in its own right here instead.

 

There seem to be dozens of medal type awards being created by just about every U.S. government agency these days. It almost seems like it has become a “free fire” zone with no control over which even the most minor of governmental entities can create a whole series of medals to be awarded for who knows what. It seems to have grown to such an extent that it is entirely possible for agency hopping political hacks to end up with more medals than Audie Murphy. Why should some guy who works of the Department of Defense and never gets any closer to real combat than taking a daily air conditioned jaunt around the D.C. Beltway be getting a medal? Does having a fine career as a civilian at the Defense Logistics Agency really merit a medal? The U.S. Information Agency? The EPA?, The National Imagery and Mapping Agency?

 

Back in the at the turn of the 19th century the U.S. Army had barely begun to recognize the need for campaign medals and now is seems that every Federal, State and local administration/agency has jumped on the “lets give medals for showing up to work on time” band wagon. What ever happened to the days when exemplary civilian job performance got you a raise, promotion, a letter of commendation for your personnel file or a nice certificate of recognition/appreciation to hang on your office wall? Perhaps two weeks paid vaction time?

 

I remember meeting a WWII veteran of the Big Red One who served in North Africa, Sicily, Normandy, all the way through Germany and into Czechoslovakia – over three years of almost continuous combat and came out of the war with three ribbons on his chest to show for it – and he never did get the actual medals at all.

 

I do agree that the military should have medalic awards for civilian employees of the military who exercise their duties in combat type environments but no just for doing a good job. For example if a civilian employee of the Army/Navy/Air Force gets killed or wounded by the same roadside bomb that hits U.S. military personnel. In such cases they should be given some civilian version equivalent of the Purple Heart (which in itself should be reserved exclusively for the uniformed services.) Certainly an entire series of civil versions of such medals should be created and maintained for these sorts of eventualities.

 

This would be much in the same vein as the British George Cross which is the more or less a civilian version of the Victoria Cross. The George Cross is awarded for “gallantry award for civilians as well as for military personnel in actions which are not in the face of the enemy or for which purely military honours would not normally be granted”.

 

I never had to serve in the military pretty much because of the sacrifices of those who did and when I see a member of the U.S. military or veteran with rows of ribbons on their chest awarded for combat action the level of admiration I feel can not be expressed in words. What they did to get them is something truly special and I feel that the Department of This or the Agencey of That should get out of medal business all together and leave the medals to the real heroes who earned them in combat.

Your oppinions? You know you have mine.

 

While I agree that there are a lot of ribbons floating around these days, I think that saying civilian employees of federal agencies don't deserve medallic recognition is taken from a very narrow perspective. Take me for example... I have served in some pretty nasty spots as a civilian federal employee (State Department). I was in Afghanistan from 9/2003 through 9/2004 on the Karzai Protective Detail. I would love to be able to have an outwardly visible sign, such as a campaign medal, to show people that I represented my country in a combat zone. We had a few USAF types on our detail - all of whom walked away with the ACM and a personal award. Not the case for those of us who were (and still are) State Department employees...and don't get me started on the contractors. And, one day, caught in some crossfire I ran to the aide of someone along with some nearby Army personnel that were inbed trainers with the ANA. I wrote affidavits for the two troopers who ultimately received the BSM each and a CIB and CMB respectively. What do you think was given to me and the two contractors that went with me - you guessed it - nothing. I am a USCG reservist to boot, with 11 years on and 15 medals and ribbons. Unlike the other services, we are pretty tight on personal awards and to date I haven't gotten above an Achievement Medal. I just recently saw a reservist with 22 years on get his first personal award and know many that go 10+ years before getting even a letter of commendation (which is a ribbon bar in the USCG). Currently I am forward deployed as a member of PATFORSWA and I will end up with the GWOTEM when all is said and done. I only wish that I could supplement my GWOTEM with a civilian version of the ACM - as I earned that along with my military counterparts. Just my two cents.

[mpguy80/08]

I agree that there are many awards that could be consolidated under other awards. For example, the Iraqi and Afghanistan campaign medals. As stated before, these should have fallen under the Armed Forces Expeditionary Medal, or at the very least, the Southwest Asia Service Medal. In my opinion the GWOT medals are a joke. Heck, join the Army and serve in a line unit and you pretty much are assured the GWOT Service medal regardless of where you serve. Soldiers are never awarded what they deserve... Most units have a rank structure in place when it comes to awards. I have seen a Private or PFC awarded a Certificate of Appreciation for four years of service in which he deployes three times, yet senior NCO's and officers receive Meritorious Service Medals, Legions of Merit and such for much less time served with the unit. In Iraq, there were soldiers who went outside the wire every day, were shot at, hit by IEDs, and received the Army Commendation Medal, while senior NCOs and Officers who rarely went outside the wire if at all, receive the Bronze Star Medal. I recently retired after 28 years of service, and never received anything over an Army Commendation Medal, despite numerous deployments and eval reports that sounded like I walked on water. At last report, my retirement award still hadnt been approved. It was submitted as a Meritorious Service Medal, and the higher ups in the chain of command were fighting over whether or not it should be approved or downgraded.

 

There is no congruity in the awarding of medals and decorations, and in my opinion those at the sharpest end of the stick rarely receive what they deserve.

 

Wayne

[Teamski]

I agree that there are many awards that could be consolidated under other awards. For example, the Iraqi and Afghanistan campaign medals. As stated before, these should have fallen under the Armed Forces Expeditionary Medal, or at the very least, the Southwest Asia Service Medal. In my opinion the GWOT medals are a joke. Heck, join the Army and serve in a line unit and you pretty much are assured the GWOT Service medal regardless of where you serve. Soldiers are never awarded what they deserve... Most units have a rank structure in place when it comes to awards. I have seen a Private or PFC awarded a Certificate of Appreciation for four years of service in which he deployes three times, yet senior NCO's and officers receive Meritorious Service Medals, Legions of Merit and such for much less time served with the unit. In Iraq, there were soldiers who went outside the wire every day, were shot at, hit by IEDs, and received the Army Commendation Medal, while senior NCOs and Officers who rarely went outside the wire if at all, receive the Bronze Star Medal. I recently retired after 28 years of service, and never received anything over an Army Commendation Medal, despite numerous deployments and eval reports that sounded like I walked on water. At last report, my retirement award still hadnt been approved. It was submitted as a Meritorious Service Medal, and the higher ups in the chain of command were fighting over whether or not it should be approved or downgraded.

 

There is no congruity in the awarding of medals and decorations, and in my opinion those at the sharpest end of the stick rarely receive what they deserve.

 

Wayne

 

I agree with you. I've talked with quite a few Army and Navy guys about awards. They rarely give MSM's out at all. When I attended the USAF SNCO Academy, not one of the six or so Master Chief PO's had an MSM, while just about all of the USAF SMSgts and MSgts had them, most with clusters. This really stood out. The same went for the Army Command Sgt Majors. Most of them had nothing higher than the Army Comm. Pretty sad how the armed forces can't seem to standardize awards.

 

-Ski

[Bob Hudson]

Check out the medals handed out by European nations, kingdoms, principalities, etc during the late 19th and early 20th centuries - between those and ones given out by various religious and fraternal orders every military officer and civil servant carried several pounds of bling on their chests. I think the - Soviets continued to award medals to civil servants, but that just does not seem like the right way to do things in the US: save the medals for the military which at least has uniforms on which to wear them. Doing good work as a civilian is commendable, but there are more appropriate ways to recognize excellence.

[barker944]

Just an observation:

 

Every service member has the right to decline an award or ribbon. It is still annotated in your records but you are not required to wear it on your uniform. I wonder if any of the folks who think they have an over abundance of ribbons or awards they really didn't deserve have ever declined one?

 

------I thought not.

 

Jim

[ASMIC2971]

Ill add my two cents in also.

 

First when I completed BCT/AIT at Fort Benning I was awarded the Army Service Ribbon (yay i didnt quit!), National Defense (OK signed up in a war time) but t he most shocking was that everymember of my company Active, Reserve and Guard all recieved teh GWOT, funny thing is half the company was National Guard and has yet to deploy! So I have a ribbon on my DD214 stating that I was awarded the GWOT for services to my country? Weird.

 

My dad spent 3 years in the Air Force duting Vietnam, his ribbon rack has 7 ribbons for three years, nothing higher then an Outstanding Unit award. After getting out he went Special Forces in the Army Reserve, 7 years later he left as a SSG with only 2 Army Ribbons he earned.

 

 

My grandpas both served in the military during WWII. One was a paratrooper with the 82nd from 1942 through some occupation duties, for years he only wore his good conduct and campiagn medal. He was awarded a bronze star but it wasnt until after the war when CIB's were converted. my other grandpa, a naval academy graduate spent 33 years in the military retiring as a O6. His two highest awards are the Joint Services Commendation medal and the meritorious service medal he was awarded as a retirement gift. Needles to say medals just dont mean what they used to. Look at the Medal of Honor in the period between the civil war and the creation of the service crosses!

 

 

 

Thats my two sense worth

any comments?

[BEAST]

I'll throw this one into the mix. Basically, I was awarded a medal for displaying my military collection. I received an Outstanding Volunteer medal for giving talks to schools, vet groups, etc. Here is a link to a post that I did about the award. http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ind...nding+volunteer

 

While I appreciated the recognition, this is an example of too many medals. We had airman receive this award for setting up their DJ equipment and play music at retirement homes. A very worthy cause, but not worth a military medal. A certificate? ok, A ribbon? Still too much.

 

It seems that the miltary came up with these awards during peace time to provide some sort of reward.

 

And as a side-note, to Barker944, I for one, did not wear all of the ribbons that I earned. I only wore the ones that actually meant some thing to me. Ribbons like the ASR stayed in the desk drawer.

[Bluehawk]

Chris & Ski... thanks for those comments.

 

Imagine, too, what it's like trying to reconstruct the rack for a Remembrance profile of a fallen airman these days, and get it right.

 

The AF has been messing with uniforms and insignia for so long now that we'll not see the end of confusion for another 50 years... it is embarassing, frankly.

[Sivart]

Just an observation:

 

Every service member has the right to decline an award or ribbon. It is still annotated in your records but you are not required to wear it on your uniform. I wonder if any of the folks who think they have an over abundance of ribbons or awards they really didn't deserve have ever declined one?

 

------I thought not.

 

Jim

 

I've turned down 2 and I know other NCO's in my unit have done it also. One was a lower award and didn't think I deserved it for just doing my job while more junior soldiers who worked their butts off got nothing. It was approved, signed, and ready for presentation and it never made its way into my perminant records. The other was for a minor incident that technically warranted the award, but again, it was't deserved. It made its way into my records (outside of my control) but I don't wear it on my uniform. It is sad that awards are so based on rank instead of merit, really makes for a bunch of resentment among younger soldiers. While I am not trying to pat myself on the back or anything, I'm just saying that it does happen, though infrequently. I think that another the Army could do without is the NCOPD ribbon in my opinion.

[hawkdriver]

Just an observation:

 

Every service member has the right to decline an award or ribbon. It is still annotated in your records but you are not required to wear it on your uniform.

 

Better not have that attitude when it comes time to get your DA photo taken. You don't have your issued ribbons on your chest and you are likely to not get promoted. Promotion boards take your DD 214, look over your records and then take your photo and with a magnifying glass make sure you not only have them on, but in proper order.

 

Someone mentioned the Combat Action Medal for the Air Force. I flew 100 combat missions and all but two of them were over Baghdad, been shot AT four very definable times, but because I was fortunate enough to not take a round, I am not eligible for the Combat Action Badge. Yet, every time that an Air Force aircraft dumped flares or saw tracers in the distance, they would call it over the radio so that it would make tower tapes, that is all that was necessary for the medal. We had a C-17 coming into Balad one night that was calling that was being engaged by a heavy machine gun on the edge of the TAC ring, we were about a click away, trying to get in behind them. We flew to the spot, to see if we could find and suppress the gun, it was a water pump with an exposed magneto, they were seeing the sparks under the goggles. Tower called back, "Do you feel threatened", C-17: "absolutely" instant Combat Action Medal.

 

There is also a reverse to this problem. Sometimes commanders are reluctant to give awards although they are well within their means. I flew 501 combat hours and by the regulations, I am eligible for a Air Medal for every 25 hours. That would equate to a "20" device for my Air Medal. However, my brigade thought that was silly, so I only got one. Didn't get the CAB for getting shot at, and my MSM was declined for having the best safety program in theatre because that wasn't merit enough.

 

I have always hated the disparity in awards, not only in the Army, but between the services. My ex-wife used to manage the awards for her AF wing, I got to read some of the write-ups and they were apalling. My Grandfather who served 30 missions over Germany in the AAF got the ETO, Air Medal and DFC, three ribbons, the same number my ex had coming out of basic training.

[Bluehawk]

Just an observation:

 

Every service member has the right to decline an award or ribbon. It is still annotated in your records but you are not required to wear it on your uniform. I wonder if any of the folks who think they have an over abundance of ribbons or awards they really didn't deserve have ever declined one?

 

------I thought not.

 

Jim

I wasn't aware that "choice" was an option...

[adamoi1984]

While I generaly agree with most of the statements here, the one i disagree with it the Armed Forces Expeditionary Medal. The main reason for this one was so they could award it instead of having to issue a ribbon for every action that we engage in. GWOT Service medal/Air and Space Campaign a mainly a joke. Issue a campaign ribbon and be on with it. I also dont think that people who push papers, and ride desks deserve medals. We should also look at how many people have been issued Bronze Stars for filling paper work, or having there troopers look spiffy for the general staff.

 

 

 

I'm not really concerned about civilian medals. I don't see them worn, so it doesn't bother me that they have them.

 

I am, however, also concerned, as the others are above, about the excess amount of medals and ribbons now worn by the US military. I currently have 22 ribbons on my rack, many are redundant. For example, here are what I consider redundunt medals/ ribbons:

 

Armed Forces Expeditionary medal/ Armed Forces Service medal/GWOT Expeditionary medal/ AF Expeditionary ribbon.

 

Now come on. I have 3 out of 4 of the above, and only the first one would suffice. Ridiculous.

 

Next:

 

AF Good Conduct/Longevity Ribbon

 

Needless to say, the Good Conduct medal alone should suffice. By the way, the USAF JUST re-implemented the Good Conduct medal after it was discontinued for about a year. Why do away with one of the most traditional medals and keep adding junk medals and ribbons?

 

Next:

 

National Defense Medal/ GWOT Service medal/Air and Space Campaign

 

Redundancy defined! The National Defense medal was created for service during wartime. Then GWOTS comes out for the same thing. I have all 3. Dumb.

 

Add the 10 other unnecessary ribbons and we start looking silly. If you look to the British, they might have 5 ribbons or so, if they have been busy. Each of those ribbons mean a hell of a lot more to them, than these do to us. Of course, our medals are the cheapest pieces of garbage among all civilized nations that I know of and are unnamed. How embarrasing is that?!?

 

-Ski