WW2 or Korea Era produced caps

[all1knew]

Hello all,

 

I know US stuff can be sometimes hard to date considering we didn't stop production for the most part when WW2 ended as we were part of the occupation force and then we ended in up in the Korean War. There's a fur felt cap or two on eBay right now. To me, the thing looks like post-1945 manufacture. The script on the tailor label even looks like a 1950's style font to me. My question is, what are some thoughts on this, is this truly a WW2 visor cap?

 

William Kramer

 

[all1knew]

to me it looks exactly like this EM/NCO cap with Officer's mohair. When did this tradition start, with the EM/NCO emblem being used on Officer's caps? These began to be issued this way, correct?

[all1knew]

and here's yet another one, this time with a horizontal pattern in the band. This one has the built-in protective lining like the 1947 Government contract caps we've seen.

[all1knew]

this ad was from 1950 btw: http://www.goantiques.com/us-army-recruiting-1955484

 

[all1knew]

I also found this link:

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?%2Ftopic%2F229711-1947-pattern-army-em-service-cap-frames-new-in-box%2F%3Fhl=%2B1947+%2Bcap

 

it shows a postwar cap with the synthetic style sweatband much like the one I showed above. I have never seen an authentic wartime cap with a "stamped" size number, only the paper label variety. Also, what pattern eagle is shown on this cap, would it be possible to date it that way?

 

William Kramer

 

[MattS]

Yes, I posted that thread about 1947 caps. The top one appears to be a post-1947 cap, note the shiny brown underside to the visor. The second one might be or might not be post-1947. The horizontal weave mohair band is WW2 pattern. Eagles are easily swapped, so that's hard to determine, and the standard pattern hasn't changed a whole lot in the past 70 years.

[SocietyBrandHatCo]

There are a lot of great points here. I'll throw in some info I hope will be helpful. The first cap in the post is difficult to date, unless it has a Quartermaster stamp on the underside of the sweatband. Some of these caps do. I just saw one on eBay with a 1950 date.

 

Starting in 1948, all newly purchased officers service caps for the Class A's (the "pinks and greens") were to be made of fur felt, which is probably why there are so many "WWII" fur felt caps readily available for sale.

 

Since we can't date the cap by simply looking at it, there are some tell tale signs we can look for. What is the frame made of? If it's wicker, it's probably WWII, as very few cap manufacturers continued using wicker as it is expensive, time consuming, and difficult to use (Luxenberg is an exception, as they continued to use wicker on their tropical white service caps into the early 1960s).

 

The cap badge is a WWII style badge, with a thicker shield than those typically encountered on postwar badges, and is a pattern that was used by N.S. Meyer, Gemsco, and A.E. Co. Of course this is less helpful as these badges were readily available in the postwar period.

 

What style is the stiffener? If it is rubber, it is almost definitely postwar, as rubber was a war strategic material in WWII and cap manufacturers wouldn't have been able to use it for service caps (remember, while still extremely popular and worn throughout WWII, service caps were considered a limited, substitute standard item, meaning they could be purchased but would not be issued, starting in 1942 in favor of the overseas cap). Also, a rubber stiffener was the issued style for the 1947 pattern cap, so that would help date the first cap. If it is a gold, satin covered soft fabric stiffener, that is also indicative of a postwar cap.

 

Another clue: how wide is the chinstrap? During WWII the regulation for the chinstrap was for the strap to be 3/4" wide, while in 1948 it was changed to 5/8". There are of course notable exceptions. Bancroft Flighters always had 5/8" wide chinstraps, and most Luxenbergs (even WWII) have an extremely narrow 1/2".

 

What Matt pointed out about the visor is very true. Postwar caps almost always had smooth brown leather underneath the visor, and although I own a few genuine WWII caps with this feature, it is the exception, not the norm.

 

He is also correct about the mohair braid. The horizontal weave braid is a style that was used as far back as WWI (although slightly wider) and there were most certainly cap manufacturers who continued to use that style as long as they had it available. I have several postwar dated enlisted service caps with the horizontal weave. I will say though that the dull, dark olive drab mohair braid on the first cap is commonly seen on postwar officers caps.

 

The Nudelman Bros cap is difficult to date since there aren't many pictures of it, but they were a popular cap maker on the West Coast during WWII.

[all1knew]

Here's a fur felt I found on eBay with a very similar sweatband and a patent date of Jan. 2nd, 1951

 

[all1knew]

Korean war vs. the one I first posted at the top with the same style of manufactured sweatband.

[MattS]

I saw that one also, note the shiny underside to the visor.

[Gregory]

and here's yet another one, this time with a horizontal pattern in the band. This one has the built-in protective lining like the 1947 Government contract caps we've seen.

 

As mentioned above - such famous men as Dwight D. Eisenhower, James M. Stewart, Dominic S. Gentile all of them wore Service Caps with horizontal weave bands. Not to mention thousends of the others during WWII.