USMCRECON Posted January 8, 2015 Share #1 Posted January 8, 2015 I've read many comments over the years about uniform items and assessments of authenticity or not and some of those beliefs that a uniform, for erxample, a blouse/jacket not being original because the ribbons are in the wrong order , upside down, etc and that a servicman wouldn't wear them "that way." I call attention to the attached official Marine photo of PVT Hector Cafferata after the award of the Medal of Honor on Fox Hill at the Chosin Reservoir. You have to look closely at his PUC ribbon, the darker color (blue) is on the bottom. According to regulations, blue is the senior color and should be topside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brig Posted January 8, 2015 Share #2 Posted January 8, 2015 I roll my eyes at those guys. While it may hold true later such as Vietnam, and definitely in the past couple decades, there is a mountain of photographic evidence of such mistakes from the era. I have photos of EGA's on the wrong collar! And not portraits, but on base, with other Marines, labeled and muster roll confirmed, so no one can scream stolen valor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mndoss Posted January 8, 2015 Share #3 Posted January 8, 2015 I definitely agree with both of you. I've seen lots of original pictures, especially from WWII, or servicemen in uniform with ribbons out of order or ribbons and badges not properly spaced, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doyler Posted January 8, 2015 Share #4 Posted January 8, 2015 Brothers in Arns Posted this before.He was 34th Division,a original 1st Ranger Battallion Darbys Ranger,Then to the #rd Ranger Battalion and captured at Cisterna.I have the uniform he is wearing in the photo with reversed Slver Star and PH ribbons.His Brother was a CPO on the Saratoga Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sigsaye Posted January 8, 2015 Share #5 Posted January 8, 2015 I was awarded the Armed Forces Expiditionary Medal early in my career. Wore the ribbon for probably 10 years until one day at a Personel Inspection on shore duty, the XO pointed out I was wearing I backwards. The center colors were reversed. I've looked back at old photos and now see it also. I had no idea there was a right direction for some ribbons. Since I wore it like that for 10 years, no one else noticed either, or cared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGrayGhost Posted January 8, 2015 Share #6 Posted January 8, 2015 I think it boils down to the fact that servicemen are "supposed to know" and "should" have their uniform in proper order, but that is not always the case as demonstrated here. However, what is the most likely scenario, that a serviceman put his uniform together improperly not knowing or caring if it is done correctly, or an individual afterwards put the uniform together improperly (with or without a dubious intention) because they didn't know how to do it correctly and/or didn't care. I would say that probability would point more towards the latter. I agree that calling a uniform a fake or put-together based solely on the fact that something is out of order is jumping to conclusions, but I also think it would be foolish not to take that information into consideration when trying to assess it's authenticity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KurtA Posted January 8, 2015 Share #7 Posted January 8, 2015 When it comes to a WW2 Army enlisted man "going home jacket" I personally have no problem with ribbons being out of order or a bit sloppy. That's quite common and to be expected. In fact, I'm more suspicious of a 1945 PFC Ike Jacket that has 6 ribbons perfectly placed on two 3-place bars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monsoon Posted January 8, 2015 Share #8 Posted January 8, 2015 I've always gotten a kick out of period photos of guys with a complete trainwreck for their ribbons. It happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AAF_Collection Posted January 9, 2015 Share #9 Posted January 9, 2015 I'm with KurtA, I often find the more "questionable" uniforms are those with a perfect set of ribbons. I collect WWII AAF portrait photos and it is not at all unusual to see ribbons being worn upside down or out of order. I also feel the same goes for ribbon devices, how often do we see someone here question a uniform because it doesn't have the correct number of OLC's or campaign stars?. Matt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USMCRECON Posted January 9, 2015 Author Share #10 Posted January 9, 2015 Thank you, guys. By my post, I didn't intend to denigrate or poke fun at anyone. I just couldn't resist posting that picture of Hector.s MoH official Marine Corps photo with the PUC upside down. The picture attached below (I've posted it before in other context) is one that if seen on a hanger in a seller's booth at a militaria event, would be deemed a hot mess. But here it is, worn by the vet who wore it 70 years ago. "Always" and "never" are words I try very hard not to use in the collecting world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BagmanL6 Posted January 9, 2015 Share #11 Posted January 9, 2015 Who amongst us who have served hasn't worn their uniform incorrectly at some point? I know I have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Too Much WW1 Militaria Posted January 12, 2015 Share #12 Posted January 12, 2015 I know I put my Class A's together once in a hurry in a mirror. Would of been fine if the larger ribbon rack belonged on the right, and the PUC and other gold framed hardware belonged on the left! LOL Whoops! John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schofield1943 Posted January 12, 2015 Share #13 Posted January 12, 2015 Hey guys...longtime lurker first time poster. As a collector of mostly medals, books and ephemera I don't have a lot of experience in jackets other than what I am able to read with my own eyes from what is present on the jacket. I came across this one on eBay and it really confounded me so I thought this would be the perfect place to ask for some help explaining what I am looking at... Sergeant, 1st Infantry Division, 18th Infantry Regiment. Where I begin to get confused is the left arm. 6 overseas service stripes denoting 3 years overseas (but no Occupation bar) and 2 service stripes denoting 6 years in the Army though the jacket also has a ruptured duck sewn on indicating discharge prior to December 1946. The Fourragere is missing the two over the shoulder loops indicating the individual not being in the 18th during the actual Normandy landings? So does that mean this soldier was with a different unit before being transferred to the 18th IR sometime after 6/6/44? And how to explain the sleeve stripes? Is it possible this soldier enlisted sometime in 1939/40, allowing them to serve six years before being discharged in 45/46? I don't see six overseas service stripes all that often either. Anyway everyone here has always been so helpful with this sort of stuff so I figured hey why not ask? Thanks for the assistance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schofield1943 Posted January 12, 2015 Share #14 Posted January 12, 2015 I figure I should add since I'm new I have no interest in purchasing this item I've just never seen one quite like it and was hoping someone better versed than I might enlighten me . Thanks again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jguy1986 Posted January 12, 2015 Share #15 Posted January 12, 2015 I figure I should add since I'm new I have no interest in purchasing this item I've just never seen one quite like it and was hoping someone better versed than I might enlighten me . Thanks again That jacket was already discussed here: http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/228281-good-1-id-uniform/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schofield1943 Posted January 12, 2015 Share #16 Posted January 12, 2015 That jacket was already discussed here: http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/228281-good-1-id-uniform/ Thanks for pointing me in the right direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted January 12, 2015 Share #17 Posted January 12, 2015 Who amongst us who have served hasn't worn their uniform incorrectly at some point? I know I have. As a LTjg, I not once, but TWICE, forgot to wear my rank insignia. Both times, our ship's BMC stopped me before I left the ship with an "Ahem...Sir...are you forgetting something???" There's a point where having messed up insignia is preferred, in my opinion. If people are going to put a uniform together, they'll either do a disastrous job building it (putting a single mount four-star campaign device on a ribbon on a WW2 uniform, for example) or it will be by the books perfect. I can give you plenty of photos where perfect WASN'T the case, because some of these guys really didn't care about the regulations...or simply didn't take the time to learn about them (remember, not everyone brought into the military was some straight-laced superhero during WW2!) I was scanning old hard-copy photos last night and came across these for your viewing pleasure. First up are the ribbons to Angelo Lenzi, who was a civil affairs officer on occupation duty in Europe. This uniform was straight from his family. Obviously, the ribbons are completely untouched... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted January 12, 2015 Share #18 Posted January 12, 2015 These ribbons were on the uniform that belonged to Frank Schofield, who later was an Admiral (this was his Captain's uniform...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doyler Posted January 13, 2015 Share #19 Posted January 13, 2015 Back to the post on the 1st Division uniform.I wasnt aware the Fourragere having the extra loops were significant.I thought the extra loops were just a manufactures thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schofield1943 Posted January 13, 2015 Share #20 Posted January 13, 2015 Back to the post on the 1st Division uniform.I wasnt aware the Fourragere having the extra loops were significant.I thought the extra loops were just a manufactures thing. I was hoping for some clarification on that myself... after flipping through this thread: http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/6931-us-uniforms-with-fourragere/page-2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monsoon Posted January 16, 2015 Share #21 Posted January 16, 2015 A couple different things: 1. Soon after I first enlisted (1983), the military changed the order of precedence for the Purple Heart. It was towards the middle of the stack; now it's just after a Bronze Star. So, you have to keep that in mind the year the uniform was put together. 2. As others have said, guys do mess up their uniforms. I went into Billeting once at Lackland when I was on TDY. The guy behind the counter had nine ribbons. I was staring at them for a while trying to figure what was wrong and it hit me: He had them upside down. I pointed it out to him and his partner yelled, "That's it! I've been trying to figure out what was wrong with them all night!" The dude with the ribbons looked down on his chest at his rack and said, "Hmmm....look fine to me". We all had a laugh at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdamaso111 Posted January 16, 2015 Share #22 Posted January 16, 2015 The most common thing I have seen on uniforms out of place if soldiers putting their ACU tops together in a hurry after pulling them out of the wash and name tapes and branch tapes being switched. I once saw someone at my unit who had thrown their FWTS-SSI on the left without realizing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doinworkinvans Posted January 26, 2015 Share #23 Posted January 26, 2015 Check this one out! In on of my.Hump Pilot books....I think we (including me) are probably sometimes too.quick to.judge! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Keith Posted January 29, 2015 Share #24 Posted January 29, 2015 I may or may not be guilty of this: "The most common thing I have seen on uniforms out of place if soldiers putting their ACU tops together in a hurry after pulling them out of the wash and name tapes and branch tapes being switched". Which is worse, a junior enlisted pointing it out or the CSM? BKW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monsoon Posted January 30, 2015 Share #25 Posted January 30, 2015 I may or may not be guilty of this: "The most common thing I have seen on uniforms out of place if soldiers putting their ACU tops together in a hurry after pulling them out of the wash and name tapes and branch tapes being switched". Which is worse, a junior enlisted pointing it out or the CSM? BKW My ex would always ask why I pointed out uniform mistakes to people. I told her that when I did it, I wasn't a dick about it. Myself and the other person would always have a laugh since 99% of the time, it's an honest mistake. I asked her if she'd rather have some SNCO or Senior Officer chew the person out for the same error. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now