jules118 Posted July 10, 2008 Share #1 Posted July 10, 2008 I'm an Aussie collector, new to the forum and primarily a collector of Airborne wings, pre 1918 worldwide pilots wings and Submarine Combat Patrol badges, but also have a small collection of USAAF pilots wings as shown in the pic. Just wondering if anybody can tell me anything about the top 3 insignia, primarily approximate dates of issue/manufacture? The top mini wing is marked 'STERLING' on the back but has no other markings Second wing is also only marked 'STERLING' Third from the top is quite a heavy 'AMICO' marked wing Fourth from top is a WW2 era Australian 'K.G. Luke Melbourne' wing Bottom is an unmarked wing, possibly Australian made, but I think more likely Brit made. The star is a separate piece to the main body, but appears to have been attached at the time of manufacture. Any additional info appreciated. cheers jules (Julian Tennant) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfrost Posted July 10, 2008 Share #2 Posted July 10, 2008 Howdy Jules, Very nice wings, very very nice! All are likely from WWII time period. The top three are rather common, but I suspect you already know that the bottom 2 are the real gems. I agree with you that the bottom wing is likely of British manufacture. The second one down is frequently described as a 1920's-1930's wing but I have my doubts, and think it is likely right from the WWII time period and may actually be a sweetheart wing due to its rather flimsy construction. But in any case, it is a nice wing. Nice wings and welcome to the forum. Patrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cooper Posted July 10, 2008 Share #3 Posted July 10, 2008 A bit hard to tell from the photo but I agree with Patrick on #2. It is my understanding that it was made by the White Co. in WW2. There are others similar from BB&B that are eariler. Oh and the last wing is TOPS! Welcome to the fourm! John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pconrad02 Posted July 10, 2008 Share #4 Posted July 10, 2008 I will agree with the other guys on #2 I have had several, and some collectors even consider these a sweetheart pattern, although I have seen pictures of one marked BB&B also. I need to ask on another note, I have been told that someone "down under" is restiking all of the K.G. Luke and Angus & Coote wings using original dies. Have you seen a lot of these turning up suddenly?? Oh and if you ever want to get rid of that Senior Pilot..... drop me a line Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cooper Posted July 10, 2008 Share #5 Posted July 10, 2008 An additional note I have see a period photo of the wing on a uniform. I will have to see if I save a scan of it. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Cain Posted July 10, 2008 Share #6 Posted July 10, 2008 I would like to see some close ups of the two Commonwealth made wings if that is possible. Cheers Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jules118 Posted July 10, 2008 Author Share #7 Posted July 10, 2008 I will agree with the other guys on #2 I have had several, and some collectors even consider these a sweetheart pattern, although I have seen pictures of one marked BB&B also. I need to ask on another note, I have been told that someone "down under" is restiking all of the K.G. Luke and Angus & Coote wings using original dies. Have you seen a lot of these turning up suddenly?? Oh and if you ever want to get rid of that Senior Pilot..... drop me a line I don't recall seeing any K.G. Luke marked fakes, but it is probable. I have seen quite a few fakes bearing the 'Angus & Coote' and 'Wallace Bishop Brisbane' hallmarks in recent times. Some USAAF wings, but mostly US army para wings and USN submarine badges. So far, these have been reasonably easy to spot as they lack the detail of the originals, having been cast rather than die struck. In fact the quality of some of these fakes is quite poor and would never have been met the standards required by these very prestigious jewellers, even in wartime. But, there are a couple very unscrupulous dealer-manufacturers here in Australia and I would not be surprised if the quality improves as the market becomes more aware that these cast versions are fake. As for selling the senior pilot... to be honest, I am considering getting rid of all of these as they fall a little outside my area of interest and I could put the cash towards an AEF wing. But, I just cannot bring myself to do it just yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jules118 Posted July 10, 2008 Author Share #8 Posted July 10, 2008 KG Luke wing - Note 'STERLING' stamp on the wing itself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jules118 Posted July 10, 2008 Author Share #9 Posted July 10, 2008 Senior Pilot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Cain Posted July 10, 2008 Share #10 Posted July 10, 2008 Could you post a picture of the makers mark on the Luke please? Thanks Gary KG Luke wing - Note 'STERLING' stamp on the wing itself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Cain Posted July 10, 2008 Share #11 Posted July 10, 2008 This has an American style pin catch with the roller lock. This is not a Commonwealth type catch. There are some other inconsistincies in the rendering that tell me this is not a typical Commonwealth made wing. I would need to have this one in hand to give a better opinion on it. It looks period but without a close inspection I can't do better. Gary Senior Pilot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jules118 Posted July 11, 2008 Author Share #12 Posted July 11, 2008 Could you post a picture of the makers mark on the Luke please? Thanks Gary Posted one to the USAAF and USN WWII era hallmarks thread http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ind...22032&st=20 Can do here too if required cheers jules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Cain Posted July 11, 2008 Share #13 Posted July 11, 2008 Hi Jules, The makers mark you posted on the hallmarks page is the recently made wings that have been showing up for the last two years or so. This I would classify as post 1950 for sure, possibly made last year. They are not a WWII period makers mark. The Wallace Bishop maker mark you posted however is right as rain. It's a shame they ruined a nice Aircrew wing in the process. Cheers Gary Posted one to the USAAF and USN WWII era hallmarks thread http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ind...22032&st=20 Can do here too if required cheers jules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jules118 Posted July 11, 2008 Author Share #14 Posted July 11, 2008 Hi Jules, The makers mark you posted on the hallmarks page is the recently made wings that have been showing up for the last two years or so. This I would classify as post 1950 for sure, possibly made last year. They are not a WWII period makers mark. The Wallace Bishop you posted however is right as rain. Cheers Gary Interesting... and somewhat disappointing, although I will say that I have had this wing in my possession for about a decade now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Cain Posted July 11, 2008 Share #15 Posted July 11, 2008 Hi Jules, A decade? They just started showing up here in 2006. When I was in Melbourne about 20 years ago I looked up as many K.G. Luke employees as I could and got as much info as possible. I also bought around 150 pieces of insignia at the time and none of the hallmarks looked like this. I still have around 60 pieces left. I have logged four major variations of hallmark from Luke and this is not one of them. It could be a 1950's period wing that was the pattern that the fakes are bsed on. But like I said, I was in Australia for the better part of two years and never encountered one of these. Gary Interesting... and somewhat disappointing, although I will say that I have had this wing in my possession for about a decade now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Cain Posted July 11, 2008 Share #16 Posted July 11, 2008 Hello again Jules. Here is the Luke I still have. It belonged to a pilot in the 90th Bomb Group who's name right now escapes me. Luke for some reason did not make many full size wings, for that matter they didn't make a whole lot of wings in general compared to the other insignia you see. The wing you posted has all of the features of the Angus & Coote wing, shape, design, placement of the makers mark etc. I hope there are other people out there who have one of your design with provenance. No one can know eveything and that is the goood thing about forums like this. I learn new stuff all the time(Your Wallace Bishop wing for example) so am hoping to learn something new. Cheers Gary Hi Jules, A decade? They just started showing up here in 2006. When I was in Melbourne about 20 years ago I looked up as many K.G. Luke employees as I could and got as much info as possible. I also bought around 150 pieces of insignia at the time and none of the hallmarks looked like this. I still have around 60 pieces left. I have logged four major variations of hallmark from Luke and this is not one of them. It could be a 1950's period wing that was the pattern that the fakes are bsed on. But like I said, I was in Australia for the better part of two years and never encountered one of these. Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Cain Posted July 11, 2008 Share #17 Posted July 11, 2008 2 Hello again Jules. Here is the Luke I still have. It belonged to a pilot in the 90th Bomb Group who's name right now escapes me. Luke for some reason did not make many full size wings, for that matter they didn't make a whole lot of wings in general compared to the other insignia you see. The wing you posted has all of the features of the Angus & Coote wing, shape, design, placement of the makers mark etc. I hope there are other people out there who have one of your design with provenance. No one can know eveything and that is the goood thing about forums like this. I learn new stuff all the time(Your Wallace Bishop wing for example) so am hoping to learn something new. Cheers Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Cain Posted July 11, 2008 Share #18 Posted July 11, 2008 The K.G.Luke is raised the STERLING is impressed. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jules118 Posted July 11, 2008 Author Share #19 Posted July 11, 2008 Hi Gary I have had it for pretty close to a decade now, the most recently acquired (of the wings that I showed in that pic) is the senior pilot at the bottom. I decided not to diverge into post 1919 US aviation after that one as my collection was becoming too diverse. The credit card receipt for that one, from IS Wright Militaria is faded, but looks like it reads Dec 2000. I bought the Luke badge some time before that date. I'll hunt around and see if I can find a receipt or something that will give a more accurate date. I'd certainly be disappointed if it was a repro as I paid a fair bit for it and only bought it because it was Aussie made. I thought it was a good bet at the time and had no reason to doubt it as have not seen a similar one offered for sale here in Australia. The Angus & Coote and Wallace Bishop repros turn up fairly frequently though. Are the KG Luke repros that you refer to Australian or US made? Anyway, these things happen and this is why I joined this forum, to discuss and learn... hoping somebody has good news though. cheers jules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Cain Posted July 11, 2008 Share #20 Posted July 11, 2008 Hi Jules, I sincerely hope I am wrong as well. The Luke reproductions are turning up in Australia/New Zealand as well as the UK and are making it here to the States via ebay. I believe they are all being made in the UK however. The newest Angus and Coote(at least that I have seen, you may have spotted a more recent version) uses a laser to cut the makers mark and is also far more angular in design than the real deal. That is another concern I have with your Luke. If you look at the shield/radiator it is narrower than the standard wings. Its proportions are off. What I am hoping is that Luke made a batch of wings up for the yanks on R&R from the Korean War and yours is one of those. The Senior Pilot is a weird one. As I said in the post on it I think it is a period wing but as to where it was made...who knows. Does the catch look like it was a repair? Cheers Gary Hi Gary I have had it for pretty close to a decade now, the most recently acquired (of the wings that I showed in that pic) is the senior pilot at the bottom. I decided not to diverge into post 1919 US aviation after that one as my collection was becoming too diverse. The credit card receipt for that one, from IS Wright Militaria is faded, but looks like it reads Dec 2000. I bought the Luke badge some time before that date. I'll hunt around and see if I can find a receipt or something that will give a more accurate date. I'd certainly be disappointed if it was a repro as I paid a fair bit for it and only bought it because it was Aussie made. I thought it was a good bet at the time and had no reason to doubt it as have not seen a similar one offered for sale here in Australia. The Angus & Coote and Wallace Bishop repros turn up fairly frequently though. Are the KG Luke repros that you refer to Australian or US made? Anyway, these things happen and this is why I joined this forum, to discuss and learn... hoping somebody has good news though. cheers jules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrei Posted July 11, 2008 Share #21 Posted July 11, 2008 Hi Jules, I am happy to see you here. Welcome aboard ! Andrei Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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