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WW1 Wing Opinions


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#1 Marc Garlasco

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Posted 29 December 2014 - 02:28 PM

Gents,

 

Opinions on these wings please. Many thanks!

 

NC

 

DSCN1190.jpg 20141213_1158542.jpg meyer1.jpg



#2 pfrost

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Posted 29 December 2014 - 02:38 PM

I have always felt that these were NS Meyer restrikes, as can be told by the pin.  Wings that I believe to be WWI vintage NS Meyer wings have the 80 degree pin.  I believe that these restrikes started showing up around the mid 90's.  Not as common as the other Meyer restrikes, they still show up here and there.

 

They are, I believe, from the original dies. 

 

Patrick



#3 hawk3370

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Posted 29 December 2014 - 06:36 PM

Gents,

 

Opinions on these wings please. Many thanks!

 

NC

 

attachicon.gifDSCN1190.jpgattachicon.gif20141213_1158542.jpgattachicon.gifmeyer1.jpg

 

To my knowledge N.S. Meyer did not use a hook type catch such as this during the war. They used a ball type drop in catch and as pointed out by another member the pin did not open all the way only about 80 percent. I think he nailed it as being a restrike from the original die.

Terry
 



#4 rustywings

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Posted 29 December 2014 - 11:50 PM

Looks like sound advice from Patrick and Terry...



#5 cwnorma

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Posted 30 December 2014 - 08:55 AM

Gentlemen,

 

Has anyone seen an original wing of the NS Meyer pattern (not the Link or Robbins versions) with a back mark other than "STERLING"?

 

If so, would you be willing to share?

 

Thanks!

Chris



#6 rustywings

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Posted 04 January 2015 - 05:27 PM

Gentlemen,

 

Has anyone seen an original wing of the NS Meyer pattern (not the Link or Robbins versions) with a back mark other than "STERLING"?

 

If so, would you be willing to share?

 

Thanks!

Chris

Here's a comparison shot for you Chris.  From top to bottom: Meyer, Link & Robbins. Similar in appearance, but each brand was stamped from its own die with subtle feathering differences.  

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#7 rustywings

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Posted 04 January 2015 - 05:30 PM

The backs with Meyer, Link and Robbins hallmarks:

 

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#8 rustywings

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Posted 04 January 2015 - 05:37 PM

Close up of the Meyer's shield hallmark and "ROLLED PLATE."  As described by Patrick above, the pin opens to about 80 degrees.

 

 

 

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#9 cwnorma

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Posted 04 January 2015 - 06:05 PM

Russ,

 

Thank you for kindly sharing these!  I have a Link, and have had the Robbins version but I have never seen a Meyer badge with the hallmark before.  It seems there are also Meyer-type badges only marked "sterling".  

 

Now we have a thread where we can point folks when the (inevitable) next time one of these Meyer re-strikes comes a calling.

 

Chris



#10 Patchcollector

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Posted 04 January 2015 - 06:57 PM

Here's a comparison shot for you Chris.  From top to bottom: Meyer, Link & Robbins. Similar in appearance, but each brand was stamped from its own die with subtle feathering differences.  

 

Those are some great Wings!



#11 B-17Guy

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Posted 05 January 2015 - 07:03 AM

Leave it to Russ..... :D

 

FYI, Meyer hallmark was first used in May 1917.

 

Happy New Year all!

 

Best, John



#12 Marc Garlasco

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Posted 20 January 2015 - 04:37 PM

I want to thank everyone for their help on this. Great forum!

#13 cwnorma

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Posted 01 November 2015 - 10:10 AM

Russ,

 

You inspired me:

 

NewYork0 - 1.jpg

NewYork0 - 2.jpg

 

Truth be told, I have been looking for a non-restrike Meyer for quite some time.  The Robbins and Link I've had for a while.  Again, thanks to Russ and this forum.  Without it, I would not have known exactly what to look for--when the opportunity presented itself.  With all the re-striikes, Meyer wings are always tough for collectors, but they really made a nice wing, and good ones are worthy of any collection.

 

As you can see, the Meyer, is marked "MEYER NEW YORK" (in shield) and "ROLLED PLATE" and has an 80 deg. pin.  The catch is identical to Russ' wing above.

 

Far too many Meyer wings are Ricky Ricardo's; they "gots some 'splainin' to do..."  

 

Just wanted to share, and once again say "thank you" to Russ.

 

Chris



#14 rustywings

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Posted 01 November 2015 - 04:25 PM

Chris,

 

What a welcomed addition to your focused WWI aerial badge collection!  Nicely done and congratulations...it's a beauty! 

 

With your new addition, you now have the ability to see first-hand ALL of those subtle design and feathering  differences when comparing the Meyer, Link and Robbins patterns. Thanks for sharing your thrill of the hunt!

 

(Now we need to locate a couple of those elusive "STERLING" marked WWI Meyer examples!)

 

Russ     



#15 cwnorma

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Posted 04 November 2015 - 07:35 PM

(Now we need to locate a couple of those elusive "STERLING" marked WWI Meyer examples!)

 

Russ,

 

I like the way you think!

 

Chris



#16 cwnorma

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Posted 23 January 2016 - 07:31 AM

Russ, et al,

 

After searching for some time, I finally found one of the "STERLING" marked NS Meyer-type badges:

 

NS Meyer - 1.jpg

(1) US is 14k gold, Badge was "frosted;" about 10% remains in recesses

(2) US is gold plated gilt, badge is rhodium or palladium plated

 

NS Meyer - 2.jpg

(1) "STERLING" marked, reverse retains about 60% "frosting"

(2) "NS MEYER" shield and "ROLLED PLATE"

 

NS Meyer - 3.jpg

(Left) "Rollover" safety catch; late 1918-1919

(Right) "Come-under" safety catch; 1918

(Both) 80 degree pins



#17 cwnorma

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Posted 23 January 2016 - 07:43 AM

It seems as though NS Meyer made the "STERLING" marked badge as a "jobber" for the wholesale trade.  A number of firms were known to sell this badge such as the "Army Navy Store of NY" and I Scheuer:

 

Screen Shot 2015-07-12 at 10.35.03 AM.png

 

Based on the hardware, It seems that Meyer only began striking these for their own retail trade (i.e. NS Meyer marked) in late 1918 or early 1919.

 

The photos in this thread should be enough to keep anyone out of trouble.  I hope someone else is able to make a good decision on a NS Meyer-type badge because of it.

 

On a collectors note:  I have yet to see a sterling and NS Meyer marked badge that I thought was genuine.  Most of the restrikes are configured like the badge at the top of this thread.  If any of you have a real, sterling, that also has NS Meyer markings, I'd like to see it!

 

Happy hunting!

 

Chris



#18 Scott C.

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Posted 23 January 2016 - 08:47 AM

Wow, some amazing examples here!



#19 cwnorma

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Posted 23 January 2016 - 09:55 AM

Wow, some amazing examples here!

Scott,

 

Last year Russ (moderator rustywings) did the community a great favor by posting clear photos of his "ROLLED PLATE" marked NS Meyer wing.  Some time after he posted his, I saw one just like Russ' in an estate auction and thanks to Russ, I knew what it was, bid, and got it.  If it weren't for Russ, I probably would not have bid--never having seen a badge marked that way before...

 

Once I found one of the "STERLING" marked badges, I wanted to post it here as well, and hopefully return the favor for someone.

 

Warm regards

 

Chris



#20 rustywings

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Posted 26 January 2016 - 05:19 PM

Chris,

 

Congratulations on adding another fine Meyer's example to your WWI Pilot badge collection!  I'm with you regarding our mutual search for a "STERLING" marked example with an actual Meyer hallmark. I've never seen one, but it stands to reason they should exist.

 

If any of our fellow members can provide any information or images regarding these elusive WWI Pilot badges, we'd sure like to hear from you...

 

Russ

 

 



#21 mtnman

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Posted 27 January 2016 - 11:27 AM

Well gentlemen and lady collectors, I have something for you. This is a wing I picked up a few years ago after consideration and assessment. This wing will give an interesting perspective on World War I and thereafter Meyer wings.

This wing came with the brass backplate and accompanying intricately sown black felt covering stitched with impossible detail, into the tiny little holes stamped in a circumjacent line all the way around the backplate. One of the things I considered when buying this wing was of course the approximately 80° opening of course indicative of true Meyer wings, but also I observed the backplate felt to assess whether the indention of the wing itself, which should be there after approximately 100 years, was there..... And it was and fit like a puzzle piece. The felt had where commensurate with its age as well as the wing on the rear. I touched up the front of the wing as I do all my wings but left the back pretty much as it was. Enjoy....

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#22 mtnman

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Posted 27 January 2016 - 11:29 AM

front

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#23 mtnman

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Posted 27 January 2016 - 11:29 AM

side front

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#24 mtnman

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Posted 27 January 2016 - 11:31 AM

Now to the important stuff, notice the elongated tongue clasp which looks to have been fitted with extra length so as to reach through the rear of the backplate...

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#25 mtnman

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Posted 27 January 2016 - 11:32 AM

Pin hinge reaching through rear of plate

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