cerick1450 Posted December 22, 2014 Share #1 Posted December 22, 2014 Hi all I recently received this sword with several items from a vets estate. Please let me know your thoughts and comments. Do I have it identified right? Thanks Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cerick1450 Posted December 22, 2014 Author Share #2 Posted December 22, 2014 few more pics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cerick1450 Posted December 22, 2014 Author Share #3 Posted December 22, 2014 more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cerick1450 Posted December 22, 2014 Author Share #4 Posted December 22, 2014 Oh, I forgot to mention, what era is this from? Thanks Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horsecavalry Posted December 22, 2014 Share #5 Posted December 22, 2014 Charlie, This is the US Army Officer's saber adopted in 1902. I believe it was still the pattern authorized for officer's up into the 1980s, perhaps it is still authorized...? If memory serves correctly, it was intended to be used with the service dress and full dress uniforms. By the time of it's adoption, this saber had fully become a purely ceremonial item. This pattern was standardized for all army officers, regardless of corps (e.g. cavalry, infantry, signal, etc.). About 1911/12, a new pattern of saber, a straight bladed style, was adopted for combat use. Both enlisted and commissioned ranks had this new saber (often called the "Patton" saber), the officer pattern had a nickel scabbard rather than a metal and canvas covered scabbard. The Patton saber, used as a thrusting weapon rather than as a hacking/slashing weapon was a significant departure from previous army saber doctrine and required new training for the army. You've got a nice example. Congratulations! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cerick1450 Posted December 22, 2014 Author Share #6 Posted December 22, 2014 Thanks for the help. Do these have much value in todays market? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horsecavalry Posted December 23, 2014 Share #7 Posted December 23, 2014 I don't really know the value of one today. You might see if any are selling at sites like eBay and take note of what they sell for. Granted, that's just the price that someone is willing to pay for it...not necessarily an accurate value for military collectors. Knowing its age, even approximate, will help narrow down the value. The early ones (and I'm not exactly sure how to express "early".....pre-WWII?) had german silver hilts and horn grips. The blade and scabbard would also be nickel-plated. More recent examples (post-WWII?) were more likely to be chrome-plated and use plastic grips. All that said, I'm not an edged weapon expert, I know of this saber because of my interest in cavalry items and early 20th century US army items. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cerick1450 Posted December 23, 2014 Author Share #8 Posted December 23, 2014 Thank you for the help. Can anyone identify the time frame of production from the photo's? I saw a pre war 1934 awarded sword that had similar markings and Germany stamp. Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZPhil Posted December 23, 2014 Share #9 Posted December 23, 2014 Well with it saying just Germany, makes it pre WW2.after WW2 it would have Made In Germany. I can't make out the maker mark on the ricasso due to the glare.. It might just be the retailer or may be the Mfg. Any chance of another shot of the area? Semper Fi Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cerick1450 Posted December 23, 2014 Author Share #10 Posted December 23, 2014 Sure. the maker is Spartan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cerick1450 Posted December 24, 2014 Author Share #11 Posted December 24, 2014 Well from what I have been able to read on the internet, it appears Spartan could be a pre or WW2 era trade mark. Also, since it does not say West Germany, It seems to back that up. Can anyone tell me who could be the maker of the spartan trade mark sword from Germany? I have seen several references to Eickhorn.. thanks Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccyooper Posted December 24, 2014 Share #12 Posted December 24, 2014 While I suspect when you say vets estate you mean older, but if a saber was purchased after the reunification of Germany in 1990 it would just say Germany. You can still buy these from army outfitters such as Marlow White, etc. It is common for units/organizations to present sabers at retirement ceremonies/unit departure etc. a saber purchased in 1994 would be 20 years old/tarnished etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spathologist Posted December 24, 2014 Share #13 Posted December 24, 2014 Spartan was a trademark of N.S. Meyer, who sourced their blades from Eickhorn. Peened construction and etch quality put it pre-WWII, my guess is 1930s. $150-ish if the scabbard is in good shape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cerick1450 Posted December 24, 2014 Author Share #14 Posted December 24, 2014 I know the family that it came from. The ww2 vet passed away in 1994. He was a german pow for almost 2 yrs. I do not know where or when he got it. I think it was probably not his, but given to him by a friend. Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cerick1450 Posted December 26, 2014 Author Share #15 Posted December 26, 2014 Are there any books that cover maker marks and dating of these swords? Cover variations? thanks Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spathologist Posted December 27, 2014 Share #16 Posted December 27, 2014 A dozen or so manufacturers, hundreds of retailers, and 112 years of continuous service combine with indifference on the part of "serious" collectors to make M1902s the wild, wild west of collecting. I think Dusan Farrington will have a book out soon that will address at least the Springfield Armory products, but there's no definitive published reference for the hundreds or thousands of commercial offerings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cerick1450 Posted December 27, 2014 Author Share #17 Posted December 27, 2014 Do These have much value? Is this a $50 sword? $100? thanks Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SARGE Posted December 27, 2014 Share #18 Posted December 27, 2014 A dozen or so manufacturers, hundreds of retailers, and 112 years of continuous service combine with indifference on the part of "serious" collectors to make M1902s the wild, wild west of collecting. I think Dusan Farrington will have a book out soon that will address at least the Springfield Armory products, but there's no definitive published reference for the hundreds or thousands of commercial offerings. True! Varangian is right on the money with his statements concerning the understudied M1902. Probably the best maker/dealer identification book is "American Swords and Sword Makers" by Richard Bezdek. This huge tome is difficult to use and has some hickups but is certainly a labor of love and the best currently available. ISBN 0-87364-765-3 Charlie it is around a $100. sword but frankly I have bought them for $25- $50 as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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