Liner chinstrap being used as chinstrap

[Cap Camouflage Pattern I]

Form what I can tell it wasn't very common to see leather liner chinstraps being used to hold the helmet on a soldiers head.

I took this (cropped) image from a video, it shows two soldiers using the chinstrap, has anybody else seen this actually being used? Why did the liner and the shell both have chinstraps in the first place?

 

[bellasilva]

I've seen the liner chinstrap in use in training videos and things like that but never in actual combat footage. And the leather liner chinstrap is just that, a chinstrap. It was worn to secure the liner to the head when the steel shell wasn't being worn. Not everyone did that of course

[patches]

The liner chinstrap had a important secondary function, that of hiking it up over the front rim of the steel pot to help it stay together, whether or not it was intended to be this way? Also true, that a great deal of servicemen from all branches didn't place the liner strap over the rim for one reason or another, they either wore the liner strap sandwiched between the shell and liner, tucked up into the liner suspension somehow, or just didn't have one, but for those who did use it over the rim it did go aways in securing the two parts.

[Cap Camouflage Pattern I]

The liner chinstrap had a important secondary function, that of hiking it up over the front rim of the steel pot to help it stay together, whether or not it was intended to be this way? Also true, that a great deal of servicemen from all branches didn't place the liner strap over the rim for one reason or another, they either wore the liner strap sandwiched between the shell and liner, tucked up into the liner suspension somehow, or just didn't have one, but for those who did use it over the rim it did go aways in securing the two parts.

 

I know they can be used this way but I don't think that was the intended use. It confuses me because they switched from the leather to the cloth paratrooper chin cups to save like 10-20 cents, think of how much they could have saved by leaving off the liner chinstraps from 20 million helmets.

 

[patches]

And here's two examples of liner straps under the chin in WWII, both Generals.

 

Troy Middelton Africa.

 

 

Manton Eddy Germany.

[patches]

This has the makings of a good topic. Think this should be moved up to Helmets, whadda you think?

[patches]

 

I know they can be used this way but I don't think that was the intended use. It confuses me because they switched from the leather to the cloth paratrooper chin cups to save like 10-20 cents, think of how much they could have saved by leaving off the liner chinstraps from 20 million helmets.

 

Don't know, but the issue (worn out or busted ones) and placement (by the manufacturer) of the liner strap was standard up to the point when they stopped making the type in the early 1960s.

[Cap Camouflage Pattern I]

And here's two examples of liner straps under the chin in WWII, both Generals.

 

Troy Middelton Africa. middleton africa.jpg

 

 

Manton Eddy Germany. eddy.jpg

 

It seems like they don't even have chinstraps on the shell, are they using the liner chinstraps because they don't have chinstraps on the shell or don't have ones on the shell because they like using the liner chinstrap? I would assume because they are generals they could easily get a new shell with chinstraps so what make the liner chinstrap better than the shell chinstrap?

 

[B229]

 

I know they can be used this way but I don't think that was the intended use. It confuses me because they switched from the leather to the cloth paratrooper chin cups to save like 10-20 cents, think of how much they could have saved by leaving off the liner chinstraps from 20 million helmets.

 

 

One really has nothing to do with the other. Not using leather for the chincup means you can use it for something else and when you're in the middle of a war, all materials needs to be conserved. Deleting the chinstrap from the liner would just mean the liner no longer had a chinstrap, and obviously at the time the Army wanted it to have a chinstrap. It probably would have made more sense to also switch the liner chinstrap to canvas, but they didn't.

[doyler]

The first photo is of officers as well as the two look to be wearing officers overcoats.

[patches]

 

It seems like they don't even have chinstraps on the shell, are they using the liner chinstraps because they don't have chinstraps on the shell or don't have ones on the shell because they like using the liner chinstrap? I would assume because they are generals they could easily get a new shell with chinstraps so what make the liner chinstrap better than the shell chinstrap?

 

Good observation on the lack of straps on the shells. Why? it's anybody's guess, most likely just a fashion?

 

 

Here's General Eddy again on a differant day with a tanker jacket instead of the trench coat, still no straps on shell, probably the same pot.

[patches]

Two more examples, these are of Troops of the 82nd General Hospital, when it went overseas it was based in England the entire time, handing seriously wounded as well as wounded German POWs sent to England.

 

 

Camp White Oregon circa 1942-43, as we see, some use the strap under the chin while some do not.

 

[Cap Camouflage Pattern I]

 

One really has nothing to do with the other. Not using leather for the chincup means you can use it for something else and when you're in the middle of a war, all materials needs to be conserved. Deleting the chinstrap from the liner would just mean the liner no longer had a chinstrap, and obviously at the time the Army wanted it to have a chinstrap. It probably would have made more sense to also switch the liner chinstrap to canvas, but they didn't.

Good point on the differences, I hadn't thought of that.

 

Two more examples, these are of Troops of the 82nd General Hospital, when it went overseas it was based in England the entire time, handing seriously wounded as well as wounded German POWs sent to England.

 

 

Camp White Oregon circa 1942-43, as we see, some use the strap under the chin while some do not.

 

tliner_strap.jpgnew1.jpg

I'd think it would be more common to see troops using the liner chinstraps when they are only wearing liners vs when they have the shell. I'd be afraid that little strip of leather would break with the weight of the shell.

[patches]

 

Not Americans, but Ethiopians in Korea, the one on the right decided to wear his liner strap under the chin while wearing the steel pot, he also seems to have his steel pot chin straps around the back with the burlap cover pulled over them.

 

 

* Should this not be moved to HELMETS?

[patches]

* Should this not be moved to HELMETS?

[patches]

Found another example, here a MP of the 6th Armd Div in Normndy I think, he wears the liner strap as we see under the chin.

 

 

[sgtdorango]

Heres Gen Ridgeway doing it...mike

[plick27]

Here's a note that I found while doing some research on the 45th in Sicily. It's from a report titled "Training notes from the Sicilian Campaign" complied by Headquarters Allied Forces G-3 section and lists notes/observations/revised tactics from all 3 participating divisions and their subordinates.

 

 

[Cap Camouflage Pattern I]

Woah

[huntssurplus]

Huh, interesting. I always thought the leather chinstraps purpose was to be used as a chinstrap when wearing just the leather liner in garrison scenarios or other scenarios that weren't necessarily combat-related when the heavy steel shell was not required to be worn. That's why it was made of leather because it was to be worn in parade scenarios as well and I guess looked better than canvas. The reason they took away the leather paratrooper chinstraps to save money was that they weren't necessary for parade events and so could be done away with without messing with the looks of parades. And I'm guessing that's why generals wore it because it was nicer and looked better?

The secondary purpose of holding the liner to the shell was not necessarily intended but came in handy to those soldiers who had the leather chinstrap. But it seemed a majority of soldiers in combat didn't have the leather chinstrap, due to not being issued/not taking it into combat or losing/damaging it in combat or what was already mentioned of it being worn in the liner or between liner and shell.

 

Hunt

[ken88]

The reason they took away the leather paratrooper chinstraps to save money was that they weren't necessary for parade events and so could be done away with without messing with the looks of parades.

 

I've always heard it was because the leather tended to rot too quickly in the field. At least that's what it says in American Paratrooper Helmets by Michel De Trez. That and they easily broke from the propeller blast on the jump. I don't think it has anything to do with parades. The navy talker helmets had similar cups and were probably never worn in parades.

[mikie]

Here's a note that I found while doing some research on the 45th in Sicily. It's from a report titled "Training notes from the Sicilian Campaign" complied by Headquarters Allied Forces G-3 section and lists notes/observations/revised tactics from all 3 participating divisions and their subordinates.

 

leather strap casualties sicily.jpg

 

Now that is interesting. Great detective work to find that document.

 

Mikie

[huntssurplus]

 

I've always heard it was because the leather tended to rot too quickly in the field. At least that's what it says in American Paratrooper Helmets by Michel De Trez. That and they easily broke from the propeller blast on the jump. I don't think it has anything to do with parades. The navy talker helmets had similar cups and were probably never worn in parades.

 

Ah wasn't aware of that book or explanation. My statement was more speculation as to why they were done away with and the leather liner chinstraps stayed rather than proven fact or knowledge. I should have made that more clear.

 

Hunt

[MT247]

Found another example, here a MP of the 6th Armd Div in Normndy I think, he wears the liner strap as we see under the chin.

 

{style_image_url}/attachicon.gif t1rsz_1rsz_liner_chin.jpg

 

I love the expression on these guys faces. Like their old buddy’s shootin the bull

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[patches]

Anda a one more Maj Gen Lunsford Errett Oliver, 5th Armd Div C.O., he wears his under the chin as we see.