nchistory Posted December 16, 2014 Share #1 Posted December 16, 2014 Need help with determining the age of this Ka0Bar.It belonged to PFC PaulMahorney USMC 8th 155mm Gun Battalion, 1944 to 1945. He fought on Peleliu &Okinawa, 1st Marine Division. It has red spacer by counter guard. Counter guardnot marked. Knife ricasso marked KA-Bar ORLEAN NY, reverse USMC. Confused as this appears to be 1943 production, yet POMMEL NOT PINNED??? Any help with identification greatly appreciated. Chris CarrollSemper Fi..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nchistory Posted December 16, 2014 Author Share #2 Posted December 16, 2014 More pics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nchistory Posted December 16, 2014 Author Share #3 Posted December 16, 2014 More..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nchistory Posted December 16, 2014 Author Share #4 Posted December 16, 2014 Pommel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raylemere Posted December 16, 2014 Share #5 Posted December 16, 2014 not sure the production but its a great looking knife. -ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nchistory Posted December 16, 2014 Author Share #6 Posted December 16, 2014 more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nchistory Posted December 16, 2014 Author Share #7 Posted December 16, 2014 Thanks Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nchistory Posted December 16, 2014 Author Share #8 Posted December 16, 2014 more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poch Posted December 16, 2014 Share #9 Posted December 16, 2014 Chris, it looks that the original pommel could be broke off and a new one peened again. Are there any plastic spacers between the pommel and the leather handle? It is the early production - plastic spacers were used in 1st - 3rd generation so 1942 to early 1943 as I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nchistory Posted December 16, 2014 Author Share #10 Posted December 16, 2014 Thanks Parde......... Can't tell if black spacer or leather at pommel. some more pics. If the tang broke, think the knife would be shorter??? Just guessing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tarbridge Posted December 17, 2014 Share #11 Posted December 17, 2014 I will move this to the edged weapons section. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sactroop Posted December 17, 2014 Share #12 Posted December 17, 2014 My vote would be an early red spacer KA-BAR with a possible Theater of action repair. Very nice piece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tarbridge Posted December 17, 2014 Share #13 Posted December 17, 2014 They pommel does not look quite right...we will see when some of the knife experts chime in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doyler Posted December 17, 2014 Share #14 Posted December 17, 2014 Pommel appears replaced to me.The early ones were thinner. There are several postedv in the knife section. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byf41 Posted December 17, 2014 Share #15 Posted December 17, 2014 I would agree early production Gen 1 or 2 with modified pommel . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*king* Posted December 17, 2014 Share #16 Posted December 17, 2014 looks to me to be an rcc pommel that is both pinned and peened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nchistory Posted December 17, 2014 Author Share #17 Posted December 17, 2014 What's an RCC pommel? Is that the correct pommel for this knife?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doyler Posted December 17, 2014 Share #18 Posted December 17, 2014 This is what you would expect to see on a 1st patten/early production with a red/blak/red spacer.The upper red spacer was dropped within a couple of months as I understand making these early knive highly collectible due to production changes and also these tended to get well used.Your cross guard was also straightened.Early knives had a slight up bend to each end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nchistory Posted December 17, 2014 Author Share #19 Posted December 17, 2014 So what I'm seeing thus far, apparently the pommel broke off? Mine is early production, but missing red, black, red spacers at pommel. Possible pommel replaced as other may have been damaged? Would guess this is an early repair as the peen is about the same color patina as pommel butt?? Does this alteration extremely hurt the value? I'm sure it doesn't affect it's history or intrinsic value. Being a cannon-cocker, he probably beat many things with the butt of his knife. Guessing of course. Is the sheath correct? Given that the pommel broke off and repaired, it would have shortened the knife, yet the pommel is still a little longer or almost even with belt loop end. Were they designed to be longer than sheath????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sactroop Posted December 17, 2014 Share #20 Posted December 17, 2014 The sheath looks good to me. I've been trying to tell from your pictures but can't make up my mind, is all the metal including the pommel at the back of the hilt one piece, or am I seeing a separate metal washer stacked below the wider pommel piece? IMHO if the pommel came from a preexisting knife the profile of the pommel was modified. This leads me to wonder if the pommel you have wasn't fabricated from scratch. Almost always hard to say exactly what happened and when to an old knife that's been passed around. One of the things to be considered is that ship board machine shops did do repair and customizing of different pieces of gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nchistory Posted December 17, 2014 Author Share #21 Posted December 17, 2014 Sactroop.....Good Question. It appears to be a metal disk at pommel, but that disk is part of the pommel the best I can tell. It looks like a separate disk because of the groove from the lathe marks. Those same circles or lathe marks can be seen on the butt around where peened. It could have been made on ship in navy machine shop, but the manufacture has same type of lathe I assume. I guess the general consensus is this is the wrong style pommel, or could it be a transition prototype? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nchistory Posted December 19, 2014 Author Share #22 Posted December 19, 2014 More pics with measurement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nchistory Posted December 19, 2014 Author Share #23 Posted December 19, 2014 More Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nchistory Posted December 19, 2014 Author Share #24 Posted December 19, 2014 I've heard some responses that pommel may have been replaced, or maybe washers missing. Yet total length from Pommel to Ricasso 5"s and blade length 7"s, total 12"s. Any further thoughts? Prototype? Transition from Gen 1 to 2? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sactroop Posted December 19, 2014 Share #25 Posted December 19, 2014 IMHO, it's highly unlikely that what happened to your pommel took place at Union Cutlery. As far as the length of the hilt being close to or slightly longer than the government specification, one would only need to add some steel to the end of the existing tang with a welding torch and shape it with a file to allow it to protrude from the new pommel enough to be peened over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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