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WW1 European Made USAS Insignia


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#26 hawk3370

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Posted 17 December 2014 - 02:29 PM

Terry,

 

I love how different these all are.  In a sense, the artistic interpretations combined with the exigencies of wartime manufacture, in the European made insignia make them very interesting!   I note:

 

- Lt Cohen's collar wings do not have the rivet holding the propellor.  Are they one piece or two pieces?

 

- The thick bronze version of Lt Bilderback's insignia has a somewhat different propellor from the thin versions (Yours, Chuck's and Mine)--even though the wings themselves look very nearly (or as near as I can tell) identical.  Can you tell if the bronze ones are cast or die struck?  The hardware of the bronze ones is quite different from the rest.  It makes me wonder if Lt Builderback might have had them custom made?  Has anyone ever seen another thick bronze one?  The thin ones are almost common compared to these thick bronze ones (well as common as WW1 era, European-made air service insignia can be).

 

Chris

 

Chris,

The props on Cohen's insignia move, they have a post that connects them to the wing which allows them to flop back and forth. The thick bronze appears to be die struck.

Terry



#27 hawk3370

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Posted 17 December 2014 - 02:43 PM

This is a top view of what I feel are the British Mfg collar insignia. These were both received from the estate of Lt. Byron Bilderback, 27th Aero Squadron, AEF.

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  • Brit edge (1).JPG


#28 cwnorma

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Posted 17 December 2014 - 02:56 PM

I've got another contribution that may/may not be of European origin. Here are two collar discs with the chocolate brown finish. Gotta ask... is this finish exclusive to overseas manufacturers?

 

Much, much more to come... 

 

Chuck,

 

Wow that is a question!  I don't want to venture too far out on that limb but I will say that there is a certain kind of shiny, chocolate- brown painted finish that is seen a lot on a lot of, but not all, French-made insignia.

 

By the way, this is turning out to be a pretty cool thread!

 

Chris



#29 cwnorma

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Posted 17 December 2014 - 03:40 PM

Very neat!

 

So I also have a pair like Russ showed.  Mine however are sew on.  I didn't know where they came from until I saw Russ' pair with the French-style pins!

 

French sew on1.jpg

French sew on2.jpg

 

I guess I'll throw these on the "European-made" pile.

 

Chris



#30 cwnorma

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Posted 17 December 2014 - 03:46 PM

This is a top view of what I feel are the British Mfg collar insignia. These were both received from the estate of Lt. Byron Bilderback, 27th Aero Squadron, AEF.

Terry,

 

If I saw that pin (the thick bronze Bilderback insignia) on a different WW1 era insignia I certainly would not guess it was made in France.  To be honest, I have not seen a pin configured exactly like that with the small "spring" part to provide tension at the base.  Very interesting and thanks for sharing it!

 

Chris


Edited by cwnorma, 17 December 2014 - 03:46 PM.


#31 cwnorma

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Posted 17 December 2014 - 03:50 PM

I believe this pair of insignia is French-made, but I'm not certain?  I didn't find any matching illustrations in Terry's fine book. It's a little larger and much thicker than the French examples posted above.  Any thoughts?

Russ,

 

Based on the pin backs, I would have also guessed French.

 

Chris



#32 cwnorma

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Posted 17 December 2014 - 04:11 PM

Note the difference in the findings between the two pair:

 

 

Russ,

 

This is the first time I have seen the English-style pin on a WW1 era insignia.

 

Thanks!

 

Chris



#33 cthomas

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Posted 17 December 2014 - 05:17 PM

Chris -

I know that was a loaded question, so I appreciate your candid response. I'm also of the mind the chocolate subdued finish, in my humble opinion, does seem to be a darn good indicator the insignia was made overseas.

 

I've got another example for this excellent thread...

 

Was someone asking about a French made collar wing with the scroll superimposed on front? Here we see a variation with 'France' etched on the copper(?) scroll. We can also see the C catch is hallmarked, which I take to be a silver proof.

 

I've got one more example of this souvenir style insignia that I'll post soon.

 

- Chuck 

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  • CT_France_Collar.jpg

Edited by cthomas, 17 December 2014 - 05:20 PM.


#34 cthomas

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Posted 17 December 2014 - 05:25 PM

Here's my other souvenir collar pin, coupled with another French manufactured example

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  • CT_VerdunWing & French collar.jpg


#35 cthomas

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Posted 17 December 2014 - 05:35 PM

Hold on... found one more souvenir wing.

 

-Chuck

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  • CT_AviationCollar.jpg


#36 cwnorma

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Posted 17 December 2014 - 05:46 PM

Chuck,

 

Very interesting!  I see:

- The "France" pin has an interesting T-bar pin combination (it appears that only the hinge is a manufactured finding, with a hand made pin soldered onto the hinge)

- The French collar insignia below the "Verdun" pin departs a little in the catch from the norm.  It appears the "C" is made out of bent flat stock instead of the standard wire.

 

Thanks for sharing!

 

Chris



#37 pfrost

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Posted 17 December 2014 - 07:49 PM

Here are a couple of French made wings on French tailored uniforms. 

 

Neither are hallmarked but I have little doubt that they are French made myself.

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  • post-1519-1223528741.jpg
  • post-1519-1221261389.jpg

Edited by pfrost, 17 December 2014 - 07:50 PM.


#38 cwnorma

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Posted 18 December 2014 - 03:59 AM

Patrick,

 

Thanks for sharing those. 

 

Is that second one thick bronze?  It looks like it might be the same as Terry's from his Bilderback group.

 

Chris



#39 cthomas

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Posted 18 December 2014 - 03:38 PM

Since we're on the topic of French mfg'd collar insignia...

 

How about this nice matching set?

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  • CT_FrenchCollarSet3.jpg


#40 B-17Guy

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Posted 19 December 2014 - 08:24 AM

Very informative thread everyone, thanks for the great information.

I look forward to seeing and learning more!

 

John



#41 rustywings

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Posted 20 December 2014 - 11:08 AM

It's quite apparent by the examples they've posted above that Patrick and Chuck are serious collectors!  Thank you both for taking the time and making the effort to share these historical insignia and sweetheart pieces.  And to quote John, "I look forward to seeing and learning more!"



#42 cthomas

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Posted 22 December 2014 - 09:48 PM

Chris (and all) -

Here's a pinback variation of the French-made disc in your initial post.

 

-Chuck

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  • CT_FrenchMadeASdisc(collage).jpg


#43 cwnorma

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Posted 23 December 2014 - 07:06 AM

Chris (and all) -

Here's a pinback variation of the French-made disc in your initial post.

 

-Chuck

Chuck,

 

That is very cool!  The base disk appears to be the same--with slightly different wings.  Same manufacturer maybe?  

 

There are so many fakes of this disk out there, it is always nice to see some good ones.

 

Chris



#44 cthomas

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Posted 24 December 2014 - 02:31 PM

Chris - 

I do see a slight variation on a theme...

It's a treat to see all of the different types out there. Thanks a bunch for starting this discussion.

-Chuck




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